Dom is joined by Jorge Elorza, former mayor of Providence, RI, and current CEO of Democra…

Welcome to Old School, New School, Next School with Dom Giordano, a podcast devoted to preserving your parental rights, including the right to choose the best school for your child. This podcast is dedicated to gaining the option of school choice for every parent in America.

Here's your host, educator and noted talk media commentator, Dom Giordano.

All right, everyone. Welcome in. Dom Giordano with you. Very special week here with old school, new school, next school.

Jorge Elorza has quite a background in politics, I would say from one of the most Democrat-centric. I'm in Philadelphia, so I know Democrat-centric. We haven't had. Jorge, welcome to the show.

You're a former mayor of Providence, professor of law. We have not had a Republican.

The last Republican in Philadelphia mayor was alive for three years while Billy the Kid was roaming the earth.

So I say all that because I assume that Providence is pretty much the same.

And yet you are now a force on the Democrat side for Democrats for education reform, which I'm happy to see that we're unified.

around this. A little bit of your background as mayor. Did you get into education in the manner that you're dealing with now? Yeah. So let me, well, it's a pleasure to be here. Let me talk a little bit about my background. So, you know, I, you know, born and raised here in Providence and I'm from an immigrant household, which means that from the moment I can remember, it was education, education, education. That was, that was it. And so education has always been really important to me. I've been really

I was really fortunate through life, graduated high school, started at community college, went off to state school, then went off to law school and came back. And I practiced as an attorney and then I was a law professor, minding my business. But then I decided to jump into the mayor's race. And the reason why I ran for mayor in Providence was because I wanted to transform the schools. And I'll tell you, I'd love to go deeper into all of this, but I learned so much about the policy and the politics of education.

And I can't say that I came into office waving the ed reform flag, because to be honest, I didn't know what ed reform was. But as I went through my two terms, I came to understand the deep challenges and restraints to reforming the traditional system. And I came to embrace alternatives. So my views have definitely evolved on this over time.

As I look at what you're doing with Democrats for Education Reform, one quote stuck out that I pulled, abundance education agenda.

Okay. We know the guy, is it Ezra Klein, I guess, that talks about this, and he often talks about it toward Democrat politics of what they could embrace. What does that mean when it comes to education reform, choices, parents, et cetera? Yeah. So abundance more than anything else, what it's trying to do, it's trying to refocus Democrats on delivering. And Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson, they make two critiques.

of Democrats and of the left. The first they say is that, you know, we've embraced a form of governance in education, but throughout, that is often tied up in bureaucracy and process. And it ties our hands, it hamstrings us from actually delivering on what we set out for. So we want to provide great public schools, but we have regulations, we have state laws, we have contractual terms, arbitration terms. All of that stands in the way of us actually delivering.

great schools.

The second critique that they make is that we on the left, over time,

we have underappreciated the role of innovation to accelerate progress.

And that's so true on education as well.

We have a century of sameness in education.

We have the same model from 100 years ago.

And what I love about choice is the bottom-up innovation that it allows for.

It creates a system that actually incentivizes new models to emerge, and it lets families vote with their feet. It gives them agency, and it gives them power. So as I see an abundance agenda, it's about that, and it relates directly to education. I'm interested. What progress have you made on the political spectrum of this? I mean, obviously, I'm in agreement with this, and when I read all the things that you're talking about, I have hope, accountability, choice, innovation, which we'll get to, charter schools,

which you would think everybody would be able to embrace since we're not fully going yet with vouchers. Could you see somebody that you would be advising of what to say that they embrace a Democrat running in presidential in 2028? Would they be able to run on this from where I come, more conservative side? I don't see any of them able to do that, even though it would brand them. And I think someone like Newsom might dip his toe in the water to do that a little bit.

But do you see any progress where politically you could do that? Well, I'll share with you one early encouraging sign. You know the world that we live in nowadays and how sometimes you're against it just because the other side is for it. And, you know, in Trump's so-called big, beautiful bill, there's the provision for the federal tax credit program, the Educational Choice for Children Act. And the instinctive response is for every Democrat to be against it.

And in fact, some Democratic governors have indeed come out against it.

But last week, the Democratic governor of North Carolina announced that he's going to opt into the program and take advantage of it because he sees the opportunity for it.

And there are a lot of other governors throughout the country that I, Democratic governors throughout the country, that I fully expect are indeed going to opt into the program.

And, you know, I take a great deal of pride in this, in that we are one of, if not the only, I would say one of the only, you know, left of center education organizations that was encouraging governors to see the opportunity in this, rather than do the reflexive, you know, political response, which is if the other side wants it, then we're against it. So that's certainly encouraging.

You write at least one article I found that you wrote about all these things, and you centered in on Pennsylvania. You mentioned Pennsylvania as a place to start, starting in Pennsylvania. There's a real test. Josh Shapiro, who really put more than a toe, put a foot in the water, you probably know, a couple of budgets ago, said everybody's a child of God. And then when it looked like it was going to pass, he was forced, it appears, to strip that choice program out.

And this is a prime presidential contender. So I guess I'm asking you, do you see this as an avenue for a presidential contender? Yeah, I absolutely believe that this is a political winner. And, you know, the most popular governors in the country always tend to be Democratic governors in red states or Republican governors in blue states. You know, voters reward. They appreciate somebody who thinks for themselves and doesn't just fall in line with party orthodoxy.

And so not only is this a political winner in the sense that voters overwhelmingly support it, but there's a lot to be said about political courage when you do the hard thing and go against your own party when you think it's the right thing to do. So I'm very much hoping that a school choice provision is included in this year's Pennsylvania budget. And I'm certainly hoping that Governor Shapiro also decides to opt into the federal tax credit program.

That would be a great win for choice and for kids and families in Pennsylvania.

Corey, we talked about innovation a little bit. We're talking about choice, accountability.

I'm a former teacher, and I was in Jersey where my union dues were taken out by the law, by statute, I think, there with the NJEA.

The teachers' unions, I think, have had better years. I'll put it politely that way.

Randy Weingarten, I've had on a talk radio, is a provocative guest.

But Becky Pringle at the NEA just would not come on. They agreed to come on, and then they must have Googled me or something that would not come on. So how do you see the teachers' unions? The argument is, is it a fair argument? They control the agenda for Democrats because of the money, the volunteers, et cetera. And they seem to have controlled it during COVID, where there's a bit of a backlash around that. How do you deal with teachers' unions?

Yeah, well, I'll tell you a couple of things. The first is that there's the old, the famous Obama line that teachers' unions deserve a seat at the table, just not every seat at the table. And, you know, I'll tell you, Dom, you know, I actually don't blame any special interest group for advocating for their own interests. The ones I blame are the elected officials that have ceded all of the power and have given away the store over time.

And so I think that, you know, the responsibility, you know, really lies on elected officials who have allowed that to happen. And, you know, I'll tell you, I was actually on a panel a while back with Becky Pringle, and Randy Weingarten was supposed to be there, but her deputy came. And I was fairly new to this role at DEFER. And so, you know, we were all on stage, and, you know, I was thinking, right, these are the heavyweights, and they're

They're gonna come with, you know, some really, really top notch arguments. And then during the debate, you know, I was really taken aback that their argument was literally more money, more money, more money. And in my mind, I'm thinking that is not the winning argument here. You know, that is not gonna get it done for kids. And that's not the winning political argument either. And so, you know, what I say to Democrats throughout the country is that 10 years ago,

We were the undisputed party of education. We were up 26 points in terms of voter trust, Democrats over Republicans. Today, we're underwater. It's obvious that America is not buying what we're selling on education. We need a different approach. And that's exactly what I tried to provide in the Abundance article that we published and that I believe provides a powerful framework in this moment where Democrats are looking in the mirror.

and doing soul searching. What is our proactive vision? Well, there are a lot of ideas. And, you know, it begins with accountability, innovation, and parent choice.

I give you the ultimate compliment. I wouldn't like to see you as running for office on just this conversation we've had. It would make it pretty hard for me to push back on that.

What is it, though, that is going to take one moment, somebody that's going to break the ice on the Democrat side? Or is it some material that you give them, some point that they say, for example, charter schools, I think, would be a starting point. I've interviewed a lot of people for this podcast, Jorge, on charter schools that are still public schools. People vote with their feet. And the thing I like about them, they really are tailored.

I know here in the Philadelphia area, to the particular skills or interest of kids, it keeps them very interested in school because they usually have a theme of one sort or another of something they emphasize. And I find that as a former teacher to be a core value that might set up a school to intrigue even sort of reluctant students a bit.

Yeah. So my organization, we've always been strong supporters of public charter schools, and we continue to be. And so we would love to see someone championing that issue and running on it. And I would say that as I speak with Democratic gubernatorial candidates, remember, we're going to have 38 gubernatorial elections in the next 15 months. So a bunch of candidates throughout the country.

I see a new generation of Democrats that want to lead on education, but they literally don't know what to do. And it makes sense because it's been 10 years since our party has prioritized and emphasized education. And so in terms of what our vision is, there's been no guidance from national executive leaders in about 10 years. And so we're trying to fill that void as much as possible.

and help candidates see the opportunity here.

You know, can we get back to being the undisputed party of education?

26 points up, maybe, maybe not.

But I want Democrats to really see the opportunity here.

When voters are questioning whether we can actually deliver on their educational needs,

if we can provide them and their children these amazing opportunities,

you know, those are the sticky kinds of things that bring voters to your party

and tangible results that you can show for families on issues that really matter. And it's about time that we get back, and I see that happening now, to prioritizing education. So is there a big idea in there? Or as you said, you've just kind of lost your way. What's the big idea from the Democratic, more liberal perspective on this? I think the big idea is focusing on outcomes.

what Trump wants to do. Forget what Randy Weingarten wants us to do. Let's focus on what do we want to do. What is our proactive vision to deliver on families' educational needs? And if I can sum it up in three ways, it's this. Let's prioritize innovation so we can figure out what works. Accountability so we're only investing in what works. And choice so that families can decide for themselves.

what works. And I believe that should be the foundation of our agenda.

We're married at the hip in the last big area for me. We saw this play out in Virginia. I never thought

Youngkin would beat McAuliffe, but the moment when McAuliffe sort of enunciated something

that you ended with here, and that is parental rights or the parent as the principal role here,

not negating professional ability as a former teacher. I may know more about Chaucer,

But that doesn't mean I can just say we're the experts on this. Is that a small thing that comes this parental rights part in your work? Is it dwarfed by the other things you talked about? Or do you see that as still out there in some way? I'll tell you, I try to avoid the culture issues in education, focus on the substance. And so when I think about parent choice, you know, when

When you give options and choices to families, including low-income families, you know what happens? They make great choices. They make choices that make sense for them. And as a former mayor, I've seen how disempowering it can be for parents to go up against the system, you know, fighting the school department. It's just challenging. It is really, really tough. And I think there's something powerful about placing parents at the center of all of this, letting them walk with their feet or

vote with their feet if they so choose, and giving them not just more options, but genuinely different options to choose from. You know, Dom, there's no way that education has to look the same, you know, in these massive buildings educating hundreds of kids. I love the idea of bottom-up innovation, such as what's happening with micro-schools in states that have choice environments.

You know, community-driven, community-based, bottom-up, startup-style innovation is happening. And it's teaching us that education doesn't have to look the same. I think that's really exciting, and I think that that's something Democrats should be all over. So I'm on a mission to help Democrats see the opportunity in this to advance our own priorities aligned with our values.

You are one of the most unique guys I've interviewed, breaking the code on this.

And I'm glad to, but because of your background, et cetera, that you're making progress on this, the thing that we all want, that they see this as a gigantic issue, that this is the civil rights issue to me of our time.

And there's no doubt about that.

I think it's a point of de-emphasis both on the Republican and Democrat side.

I don't think Republicans are necessarily doing a good job, although the crafting of the big, beautiful bill where the public schools won't suffer. It's going to be fascinating to see where people contribute and how that money filters down. Your group, where do we find you? And tell us what you're going to be doing in the near future that we're going to be seeing around this or a.

reform, dfer.org. Right now, the first order of business for us is getting as many

democratic governors to opt in to the Educational Choice for Children Act.

Right. You know, this is, it's part of the, you know, so-called Big Beautiful Bill.

And it allows for new money, philanthropic dollars to come to a state

to be used for either private school tuition or for a range of eligible uses, including one-on-one tutoring. So there's tons of benefits that can come to states from this. So we're working with governors and with states, hoping that as many as possible will opt in. And then for the ones that opt in, we want them to be successful. And so, you know, we hope to work out with as many governors and states as possible to implement these programs to make sure that the families and the kids that need to be

I'm going to whisper down the lane to you, whispering to these Democrats, and one of the things you just said, it is the magic thing to me, and that is the one-on-one tutoring to make up for COVID. It's shocking to me with all that money. I don't think we've seen enough embrace across the board of what needs to be done, either small group or one-on-one tutoring, and we're kidding ourselves that I don't see these kids coming back necessarily to their potential unless we're going to be able to do that.

We got to do things differently. During COVID, we spent $190 billion. What do we have to show for it? Look at outcomes. They're markedly worse today than they were even before the pandemic. It's just clear and obvious. There's the policy case, there's the moral case, there's the political case. Every which way you look at it, it's obvious that we need to do things differently.

And we want to help Democrats see the opportunity in this and offer our thoughts on how they can approach it differently.

Well, thank you. If I could be of any help, too. And thank you. Thanks for the work that you're doing very, very much. When it comes to the election, I'm still going to say I hope you find the answers toward this because it is truly the moral decision that we're all involved in this. Thank you. And again, thanks for what you're doing with Democrats and across the board. All right. Thanks for joining us.

Thank you, Don. Thank you very much. All right, everyone. That is a unique perspective from Orey here. And the group, his group, is very much trying to entice Democrats into getting on board with this. One little note that I'll make in addition to our talk with him today. In my neck of the woods in the Pennsylvania area, but I think this is happening nationwide.

I'm looking at the story of a woman who sued a school district. They paid her off to go to private schools for instruction. She went to the Council Rock School District as she tried to determine why her children were struggling to read. The mother identified flaws with instruction there. In other words, this is a special ed type of situation. And they were happy to provide school choice.

The curriculum, its lack of staff, trained in a method designed for dyslexic students.

So we're already seeing public schools, my point, farming some of this out.

Why in the world would we not be able to engage more?

And a guy like Jorge, who was just our guest, Democrats for Education Reform, is certainly engaged in that.

So thanks for listening again this week.

Let people know about this podcast.

You don't get guests like this every day. They're out there on the other side of it performing this. Just send me an email. Domshow, D-O-M-S-H-O-W, at AOL.com. Domshow, at AOL.com. We will see you next week here at Old School, New School, Next School. Old School, New School, Next School with Dom Giordano is a presentation of Giordano Productions, LLC. Copyright 2025. All rights reserved.