Dom welcomes Guy Ciarrocchi, Senior Fellow at the Commonwealth Foundation and writer for …

Welcome to Old School, New School, Next School with Dom Giordano, a podcast devoted to preserving your parental rights, including the right to choose the best school for your child. This podcast is dedicated to gaining the option of school choice for every parent in America.

Here's your host, educator and noted talk media commentator, Dom Giordano.

All right, everyone. Welcome into Old School, New School, Next School with Dom Giordano.

And we're honored this week, particularly because of the specificity of this is the only way I can put it, of somebody with deep knowledge.

One of the things I want to take part in is overall knowledge, cyber charters, and why cyber charters are a compelling case for how determined the other side is the school choice standing in the schoolhouse door people are. Guy Sharaki is with us. Guy's a senior fellow at the Commonwealth Foundation. He writes, it seems like every day, we're brought in Liberty, real clear Pennsylvania and other publications. And he's a colleague in various places.

including Firehouse speaking. So, Guy, welcome and thanks. I wanted to start with the cyber charter. You have been the number one voice on this in Pennsylvania. And there's a, I'm not sure how many parts series, PennLive, State's effort to limit enrollment divides Pennsylvania's cyber charter schools. So, the first thing they talk about is how one of the major cyber charters agreed to a cap. And we're seeing this play out in places like New York

with Mondami, going after the charter schools too.

You know, when they talk about vouchers, that's a slightly deeper,

even though the show maintains it's not, it should follow the kid.

But when they start to go after charter schools, this just shows how determined they are.

And it seems to be one of the things you do, it's by a thousand cuts.

So give us the landscape as we currently see it.

There seem to be, they say, two major cyber charter schools in Pennsylvania. Yeah, thanks for the opportunity to discuss it. All of us looking and caring about kids and wanting to make sure they learn, like folks like you and me, we want them to find a school that works and give parents options. And 20 years ago, over 20 years ago, there was bipartisan legislation to do what was called digital online schools, which has now grown into cyber charter schools.

They're 14 in Pennsylvania. And because students attend largely at home, occasionally they go to pods where maybe six or even 10. There's a pastor in Harrisburg that has about 100 students go to a church hall each day. But the students learn online, and that's how they go to school, which doesn't sound as crazy now that we came out of the COVID era, because in 2020 and 2021, almost every child attending public school attended online school.

But it's grown.

If we were to look at this sort of like the fast food industry, if you will,

cyber charter schools are sort of the Chick-fil-A of it.

It's the thing that's growing the fastest.

In January of 2020, just for your listeners to give an idea, before COVID,

in January of 2020, there were not quite 20,000 kids in Pennsylvania in a cyber school taking online classes.

They're now over 70,000.

It's the fastest growing segment.

is becoming more and more popular because either public schools are failing or working class or poor families can't afford Catholic schools. And to your point, Dom, politicians know it's unpopular to close them. So now they're trying to overregulate them and starve them for money to force them out of business. They think they can get away with this, masking their real goal, which is to try to put them out of business. Now they're just going to overregulate them and bleed them of money so that they're unable to do it.

How effective are they, say, versus the average public school? Do we have any metrics on that? Is there any criticism? Well, let me go back for a second. What's the appeal to parents? I get the charter school. I'm a big proponent. I even get homeschooling. Is this part of the homeschool movement? And then parents feel they're actually doing that, but they're getting experts in this sort of to help with their kids. Because of technology, they can do that.

in their living room.

Yeah, I think that's an excellent point.

That's a large segment of it.

And again, I've been consulting with cyber schools and serve on the board of the Trade Association, the Pennsylvania Coalition of Charter Schools.

I've been on the board for years, now serve as the vice chairman.

So I've gotten to see a lot of these schools.

I don't want to exaggerate the point, but with 70,000 kids, there's almost 70,000 stories.

What you learn is that this is absolutely a combination of everything.

These are students who sometimes have health issues or who mom or dad has had a health issue.

These are sometimes children who are homeless.

These are sometimes students who've been bullied or who move around a lot and can't handle it because mom and dad are in sales or get transferred a lot.

Some of these students are extraordinarily gifted and frankly, they're bored at their local public school.

This allows them.

This online programming, along with the mentorship and the teaching, allows for both extremes, if you will. The students are behind, allowed to catch up. The students are accelerated to go faster, further. There are some students, particularly in high school, that are really talented and that work or have what we call a side hustle now. Taking their classes online lets them do that. There are some students who are particularly 16, 17, 18 that have to work. There are some people in their 20s that are going back to school that never got their

high school degree. So it really is almost every demographic.

And as far as the scores, the scores reflect that of a very diverse student body,

particularly for the kids that are at this given cyber, because it's their second, third, fourth, or fifth school.

Some of them challenge academically.

What you find is if you test them after one year, their grades aren't great.

The longer they're there, the grades go up.

And in almost every case, the grades that they're getting in their standardized testing is better than the school they left. So sometimes you have to look at relative. Like, sometimes the choice is not between a Mercedes and a BMW, but it's between two, you know, family cars. And if you leave a school where the average proficiency rate is 20 percent, those kids aren't going to do well in the first year or two, no matter where they – you could send them to St. Joe's Prep. They are not going to become scholars overnight.

They need the support. Over time, you see that after that second year is when their grades begin to tick up because they found something that's working. But because there's now 70,000 of them, a lot of the folks in Harrisburg want to shut it down. The irony is that it's not the way the business world works. But in Harrisburg, you try to shut down anything that's competition to the educational establishment. Yeah. Is Pennsylvania a particularly good? My sense is it. You would know better. Is Pennsylvania a particular?

You are a hotbed of cyber charter schools. Nationwide, I don't hear as much

through you. I hear about Pennsylvania. Are other states doing as well with 70,000 like we are?

No, we're one of the highest. We're also one of the highest proportionate to other states.

And part of the reason is because it came about out of, you know, you and I remember back

for your listeners to the Tom Bridge era was really the, if you will, our education governor who

and tried so hard to get vouchers passed. He and then Mark Schweiker, Governor Schweiker, were the ones that put charter schools in place, put the education tax credit in place, and ultimately put cyber schools. One of the reasons Pennsylvania is so far ahead is that we had these established schools now going on 22 years, and so that when COVID hit, parents found them. And now that more and more parents are working for home, this allows their kids to work study from home, and it's been feeding on itself.

And just for the 70,000 number, to put in context, Philadelphia School District, the biggest school district in the state by far, it's like saying the Yankees have won the most World Series. Philadelphia has about 110,000 kids. The Cybers together are 70. The Pittsburgh School District is the second largest. Pittsburgh's about 19,000 kids. So cyber schools are three and a half Pittsburgh's worth of children that are flocking to this.

Other alternative school, which again, again, in a normal world, we would study it and see why it's popular and learn from it. But when there's politics and money involved, the politicians are trying to close off the valve and try to actually harm these schools, which are becoming so popular. Guy, are there caps to what each entity can have? I know the one big one agreed to a cap to keep things going. So is that 70? Would it be more or is that a cap figure?

Only one school so far has agreed to a cap. These local, as you know, the local charter schools, the brick and mortar, you know, the Christopher Columbus School in Philadelphia, Mast up in northeast Philly, those they get their charter, which is literally like their bylaws, their document. They get them from the local school district. The cyber schools get theirs from the Pennsylvania Department of Education. So the Pennsylvania Department of Education, driven by Governor Shapiro, previously governed by Governor Wolf,

are trying to limit the cybers through their power in Harrisburg.

And as part of their renewal, they'll say, you know, you're doing okay with 10,000 kids, but really don't think you can handle any more.

They're trying with each of them.

A number of the schools, frankly, Don, their charters have expired.

They're operating sort of in extra innings without their charters being renewed because they're trying to impose caps on all of them.

So there's a place for all of them.

So the newest school opened last year. It's based in Williamsport where I'm at in Chester County. There are two based in Exton. There's one in Westchester and there's one in King of Prussia. So they're popping up. And again, because of their nature, as I always say, the kids are there from Erie to South Philly. And then the schools, depending on their size, have regional events. They tour the Philadelphia Zoo. They tour the Norristown Zoo. They go to a Phillies game. They do different cultural events, Longwood Gardens.

They try to keep the students in that community to see each other. And the other thing I mentioned is with these digital schools is parent groups or community groups pop up where the students can come together. So it's not the socialization you get at Numenegretti or Southern, but it is the socialization. There is a socialization there for the students who want it through tours, trips and study groups. Guy, your other hat here, we announced you, you're a prolific writer and somebody I go to to try to figure out what the heck happened.

to the Philadelphia suburbs, the age old question, and also your work with the Commonwealth Foundation, the politics of this. Let's go to the governor's race. And I want to go to the guy standing in the schoolhouse door. And we were both at an event. I've jousted with Matt Bradford from Montgomery County over the years. I'm shocked universally how all the insiders, it's the story that has to get out there. But first in the governor's race with Stacey Garrity and Josh Shapiro.

is it seems to be widespread. And the cybers are a perfect example to make the case.

We're in an era of technology. Shapiro and others always talking about the new Pennsylvania, the strides, all that stuff, the McCormick events.

Why in the world would this not be something to tout rather than be the enemy of? So how does Garrity get that point across?

I hope the way she does it is explain that there's you know the governor likes to say he gets stuff done right and I think when it comes to education the reality is and I hope Stacey Garrity makes the point which is the only stuff the governor's gotten done is increased public education spending without accountability we're spending more money than we've ever spent with less accountability than there's ever been before and as parents want choice he's been standing in the way of choice.

Those are just facts. Now, I hope that Stacy can deliver that. I think she will, because the facts are on his side. And to your point about Matt Bradford and that the governor, as you and I know, went on national television in June of his first term and told the nation that he would support Lifeline scholarships, that every one of God's children deserves a chance to succeed. They passed the budget with Lifeline scholarships. Matt Bradford told him no.

I believe I would risk my home. If they put Lifeline scholarships on the floor and let

every member but their conscience, it would pass. 102 is the magic number. There'd probably be 120 to 123 yes votes if they would do it. But Matt Bradford said no, because the teachers union said no. And when I knew the governor's, Governor Shapiro was just the acting governor and Matt Bradford was the real one was June of that year.

year when Josh Shapiro went on national TV and said he was for it.

And Matt Bradford said no.

And since then, everybody now knows you negotiate your budget with Matt Bradford

because it doesn't matter what Josh Shapiro says.

If Matt Bradford doesn't agree, it doesn't happen.

That makes Matt Bradford very powerful, but it also makes him the obstructionist.

Yeah, well, why, though?

I mean, I had him on.

And I got to say, you know, this was an all-time struggle in talk radio that I enjoy so much.

It wasn't quite like debating Chris Christie, but or Stephen Miller, but he is bellicose. He is in the ring. You're in a fight. But how does, let's bring race into this. How does a white guy from the suburbs, is what I always ask, big mouth white guy from the suburbs, how does he block black and brown kids and Shapiro go along? In other words, why has this not been publicized or discovered?

Does the Philadelphia Inquirer and others, they must know this or don't they? You're knowledgeable. And I speak to the Senate President, Garrity. People there are knowledgeable. Maybe they like it, but this is not, the public is not hearing this enough. And what you just said is true. You have an acting governor and the real governor. And if people across Pennsylvania heard that, and this guy being so captive to various interests, I think that's a heck of a story.

Yeah, and the other story is, look, for your listeners, if we just think back just a week ago and how we spent the summer with the entire state government at a standstill over Septa. Why? Because ultimately the Inquirer did stories where Matt Bradford was saying, we're going to use this as a cudgel. We're going to use this as a hammer to beat suburban Republicans into submission. Apparently Matt Bradford hadn't looked at the map. There are only about six Republicans left in the Delaware Valley. There used to be 29.

There's only six left. And take my county of Chester. John Lawrence represents the Oxford area along the Maryland and Lancaster border. Nobody in John Lawrence's district cares a whit about SEPTA. He's not going to win or lose. Martina White, our rock star from Northeast Philly, she has survived Josh Shapiro, the fighting around the Trump presidency, and continues to win. She's not going to win or lose over SEPTA.

So I use it as an example to say Bradford went to the Inquirer and said, we're using this to beat suburban Republicans into submission. When he finally realized, A, there aren't enough Republicans to fight about, and B, the Republicans who there aren't going to lose because of SEPTA, that's when Shapiro said, okay, never mind. I'll have them borrow. They'll take money out of their left pocket and put it into their right pocket. Nothing to see here. Why isn't it talked about? Because, look, my running theory as recent as this week's columns is that

The Democratic Party is now a suburban party. It is an ideologically driven suburban party. It is not an urban party. It is not a working class party. It is largely a white suburban left wing progressive party. And the remaining African American legislators are unfortunately being led by caucuses, caucus leaders that are white progressives who can talk about defund the police because it's safe where they live,

who can talk about the virtues and wonders of public education because their schools are relatively good, and I emphasize relatively. And the black legislators, it's why, look, that's why I believe you've had Eamon Brown on your show. I believe that six or seven of the Philadelphia Democrats, I believe that the Hispanic legislators from the Lehigh Valley and Redding would vote for this, they're being held captive. The one thing the Democratic Party does much better than the Republicans is bring about unity.

When they take a position, they demand absolute unity. They demand absolute support. And right now, the folks in charge are white suburban progressive legislators from upper middle class and upper class communities. And Bradford embodies that. He is a political animal. Matt Bradford, as I say, he doesn't pick out his tie in the morning without thinking, is this how I maintain my majority? Whether the issue is SEPTA or school choice, how do I protect my majority? And he convinces the

from Philly. Yes, it would be popular if you did it, but nobody will kick you out if you don't.

And the teachers union has your back. That's the argument. At least on paper, my sense, who knows how fully the National Republican Party has made inroads with unions, working people, black and brown to a degree.

Maybe it's just the persona of Trump doing that. What should Republicans do here would be the elixir on this.

And I realize in a place like Philadelphia, it's a little bit hard. What should they be doing to say as honestly as we are? This is a big mouth white guy from the suburbs. That's the way that I would approach it. You represent these children and you like Eamon Brown, who I love, but I understand, you know, what his commitment is. You just said it there are letting Matt Bradford haul the tune for what's happening in West Philly to kids that could be reached, could be helped and their parents.

Yeah, so I think it's a mixture of things. I think you hit the nail on the head. Look, I think the baton has to be passed from President Trump to local leaders. And you saw it with Joe Pacozi in Philadelphia, where his district is not as heavily African American, but there's a significant Hispanic community, and there are a lot of other ethnic minorities. But I think President Trump, you know, in his own Trump way, basically has gone to urban America, has gone to African American communities, and sort of the

the vernacular. How's it working out for you? Crime is high. Jobs are sparse.

It couldn't be worse, he said. How could it be worse for you?

How could it be worse? So I think, look, I think if we fight this over party and we try, I think that if, whether it's Stacey Garrity or anybody else goes in and says, the Democrats have failed you, I think that's a loser.

I think the issue, you go back to the issues, if you, you know, in a sense, if you don't mind, sort of borrow almost the Sherelle Parker playbook.

You know jobs

Good jobs

Fight crime

Good schools

And I think you have to go back to that

And it's what I tell my school choice allies

Which is the coalition

Is not just Republicans

It's Democrats

Who want good schools

It's moms

It's grandmoms

It's dads

Who want good schools

So I think it's a political argument

Look it's why I said

Look Dom

I'd be looking at it the other way

It's why I've said for years

If Josh Shapiro wanted to step out of

The Gavin Newsom

He hasn't done it on energy. He could be the energy candidate. He could explain to the gas industry, we're going to get the gas out of the ground, but we're going to do it on my terms. They would sit with him. He could do it on education. How do you separate yourself from Gavin Newsom? You're the guy that gets it done. I would tell you this. If he were to sign Lifeline scholarships and have a big press conference in front of Roman Catholic High School, he would foreclose the Republican Party of getting

in that area. If he would go to Western Pennsylvania and say, I'm going to get the gas out of the ground, he would lock off them. He doesn't do it because at the end of the day, the safer path is the teachers union and their environmental extremists. It's that constituency. The path forward for candidates, the path forward to the issues is to go to these communities and explain the difference, but also explain to them until you, not anybody else, until you folks, until the folks living in Southwest Philly, until the folks in West Philly,

Hold Your Legislator Accountable. The Republican Party can't change it. The Republican Party, you have to hold them accountable. Look, I think that if you have a Governor Garrity, a Governor Garrity and a State Senator Tony Williams will figure out how to get to a majority in the State House, regardless of the numbers. Governor Garrity and a State Senator Tony Williams will find African American and Hispanic legislators and get this done in a way Josh Shapiro has been unwilling to do.

Absolutely. So, Guy, coming up, next column, where do we find you? What's the biggest thing for Guy Sharaki? Well, I keep writing, keep have columns. I'm just imagining you go through this because you write as well. You have something planned and then news happens. Yes. You know, I was working on a series of columns on the suburbs and then Charlie Kirk was assassinated and I had to write about that, both frankly done for my own mental health. So, I have columns coming out this week in Broad and Liberty.

on the continued mix of the suburbs. But questions for Democrats coming out of Virginia. Do you think that Jay Jones should step down? Do you think that someone that says they're going to assassinate their opponent or kill their children should run for office? It's ridiculous that we have to ask that, but we do. Do you think it was wrong that it was Charlie Kirk? So that's broad liberty. Tomorrow, in real clear, it will be, you and I,

We're talking about earlier. The mask of moderation is off in the suburbs. They're no longer pretending. Chrissy Houlihan posted 23 times in the last five days. 18 of her posts were attacking Donald Trump, Pete Hegseth, or the Republican Party. She no longer posts about puppy dogs and town hall meetings. They don't use the word bipartisan. They don't use it. They used it in 2015 and 2017. As I say, they governed, they campaigned as Republican light.

And they're now full-fledged progressives.

They're now the party of Matt Bradford.

They're now the party of Katie Muth.

And so that's what I'm writing, the changing in the suburbs, which is the moderate caucus is gone.

And I encourage voters of all stripes, you need to ask them questions the way they used to ask you or me.

You're a Republican, but you're not like George W. Bush.

You're not like Rick Santorum or you're not like Trump.

It's time for voters to ask them.

You're not like those people that think men can have babies, are you? You need to ask that question for people running for school board. You don't think men should play women's sports, do you? And if a Democrat can't give you that answer and give it to you without a but, do you think it's wrong to threaten to assassinate your opponent? If they can't look you in the eye and give you an answer without a but, I don't care what their policy is on anything else. You don't want them in office. Absolutely. Guy, thank you so much to be continued as always. Thank you for the Bradford Insight

All right, that's Guy Shiraki, our guest this week. Real good insight of what's happening here on the ground in Pennsylvania, why it's so important in this governor's race and all races to free our kids and to free up the education, the cyber charter schools. If you have a question for me or comment, you can always reach me, domshow at aol.com, D-O-M-S-H-O-W at aol.com. Thanks for listening to this week's edition of Old School, New School.

Next School.