Guest: Stacy Garrity, Treasurer of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania Topics: The cost savi…

Welcome to Old School, New School, Next School with Dom Giordano, a podcast devoted to preserving your parental rights, including the right to choose the best school for your child. This podcast is dedicated to gaining the option of school choice for every parent in America.

Here's your host, educator and noted talk media commentator, Dom Giordano. Welcome in, everyone. Dom Giordano, talk show host, longstanding in Philadelphia, teacher, longstanding, and someone passionate to bring you people that are in the center ring around an issue that we all care about, parental rights and the ability of parents, one of the dearest rights, to educate their kids. Joining us is someone who has been the biggest vote getter in the history of the

So that's somebody to bring you. Treasurer Stacey Garrity joins us. And Treasurer, welcome again. Good to talk with you. Give the listeners of the podcast a sense of your role as treasurer. As I understand it, in a state like Pennsylvania, that's a pretty big job. First of all, Dom, it's great to be on with you. And yes, of course, my major role is to be the fiscal watchdog for $170 billion of Commonwealth

We have assets. Of those $170 billion, we directly invest about $55 billion. And then I run all of our consumer programs like unclaimed property, PA-529, College and Career Savings Plan, which also allows you to spend tuition on K-12. PA-ABLE, our program for Pennsylvanians with disabilities. And I should mention that we make every payment in the state for over 70 agencies.

which, if you ask me, is too many. Yeah. So when you're doing all that, watching all that, you're a prime person to talk about the unbelievable amount of money. I've seen numbers that we may be spending in public school students, $24,000 a year or in that range. And yet, in the Keystone exams in 2024, 18 schools in Pennsylvania did not have one student who was proficient, not even high school.

high level, but proficient in reading or math. So we are spending an awful lot of money for schools, and I'm not blaming the school per se here. It's not to do that, that are just not working to get the results that we want. What do you see in your role? So you're exactly right. Pennsylvania's per student spending ranks seventh highest in the nations. And with those statistics that you just rattled off, which I'm totally tracking with,

you know that is not a very good return on investment.

And in fact basic education is the single highest appropriation in the proposed 25-26 budget.

And you know I go to all 67 counties every single year and when I talk to parents they are worried first and foremost for their children's future.

And setting up our kids for success in the future starts with great education.

We cannot afford to fail another generation of kids. So parents need a lifeline. Yes, lifeline scholarships. I saw that people like Martina White and another representative, and I know you've been a big fan. For people that don't know this, what are lifeline scholarships in Pennsylvania? And what are the difficulties with doing something that most people, most reasonable people think is the right thing to do?

And even the governor at one point, sort of maybe in the past, said these are all children of God, Governor Shapiro. And he was on board doing it. Then at the 11th hour, somehow or another, he wasn't. You're right. Governor Shapiro has held not one, not two, but three positions on this issue. First, he was for it. Then he was against it. And now he's neutral. I mean, honestly, he makes John Kerry look like a model of consistency. But these lifeline scholarships are also referred to as a model.

to pass, which stands for Pennsylvania Award for Student Success. And these are scholarship programs that would enable school-aged children who are attending schools in the bottom 15 percent, and also their income level is basically 250 percent of the federal poverty guideline to get scholarships. And so it's wonderful because then parents could send their kids to where they could best succeed, because we

We all know that a cookie cutter model doesn't work for all kids.

Absolutely. I wanted to divert now away from the current role and go back your history. You have really, for our listeners in Philadelphia, an unbelievably fascinating history. We know about the military, which we'll get to. And I'm amazed at the camp that you ran and what you were able to do with that, because I went to Gitmo and I know the trouble they had of running the prison. I walked around with these guys who were killers.

and doing it in a way that had dignity for the prisoners.

But your own schooling, you're kind of a model from a part of the state where your parents and your schooling must have given you the start toward where we are now with your career as treasurer and maybe even beyond that in the near future.

Well, you're exactly right. So I'm from Bradford County. So I'm in the northern tier.

So I'm from one of the most rural counties that we have in Pennsylvania.

And so, of course, I was very blessed because, you know, service is part of the community, is, you know, part of family. It's, you know, it's part of church. And so, yes, I went to a very small school, first person in my family to go to college. And then, yeah, I think I've told you the story about how my dad kind of tricked me into joining ROTC.

I came home one weekend from college and he was sitting on the couch with a recruiter. So I planned on doing six years and I ended up doing 30 because after 9-11 happened, I just could never bring myself to get out. And in fact, if I had not had my mandatory retirement date, I would not be here as your state treasurer. Honestly, I would still be serving because serving was and is the honor of my lifetime. And for people who don't know, you commanded a camp, an internment camp in Iraq.

The Angel of the Desert, where did that come from? Oh, my goodness. So I had a detainee, and this was in 2003, 2004. So they had picked up basically every military-age man off the streets of Iraq. And so I had people that were murderers, rapists, but I also had people that were just picked up for basic weapons charges.

was going to medical school. His parents were both school teachers, ironically. And so he had already missed a semester of his doctorate program. And so his parents came to every family visitation. So I put him through tribunal to see if he was safe to be repatriated. He was. And so his parents were so elated. It spread within 24 hours all throughout Iraq. And I would have hundreds of people lined up at the gate every single day.

to see the blonde major that helped the people. So that's how I got the nickname. Yeah. Well, I went through the military background because we all know the military truly has been a meritocracy. You're an example and a road for people to accelerate. So I think you bring unique sensitivities to it, what you're doing now, and we'll get to the future and the military toward the importance of these parents being able to have a shot with their

And again, this seems to be the only way. We've gone through all the statistics, etc.

So does that military background, the people you commanded, the things you've seen, this was a lifeline again for a lot of Americans to advance?

Absolutely. And speaking of the military, Dom, a lot of these detainees got picked up for committing crimes because they had no way to take care of their family because they couldn't read or write.

And so one thing that we did in our camp was we provided basic education, basic math, and some trade skills so that then when they did get repatriated, that they would hopefully get a job and be able to take care of their family. So absolutely. You're the treasurer now, but you are, again, the biggest vote getter out there, someone with a very unique Pennsylvania story. And if you do choose to run for governor, I wanted to talk about this issue because I see the universality of this.

It's not just about kids, the school, the money. There is a moral component to it. And just the times I've seen you speak in person, there's an urgency about you, of what you do as treasurer. That's the quality that I think is lacking in schools in Pennsylvania as a former teacher, et cetera, post-COVID particularly. And the only way to shake that up is if people have a choice that might strengthen the public schools, but certainly those families and those kids,

would have a shot at this. So do you see that as an issue in the upcoming

governor's race, whoever the nominees are?

You know, I really do, Dom. Over 70% of Pennsylvanians support programs like PASS.

And, you know, as we talked about, Governor Shapiro in the past expressed support for similar scholarship programs.

But, you know, we've tried throwing more money at it.

We've increased the amount we spend on basic education by $2.4 billion since Governor Wolf came into office. So that's over Governor Wolf's two terms and Josh Shapiro. You know, we've tried new management like the Philadelphia School Reform Commission. So maybe we just need to try a different model. And I think PASS would be, you know, an excellent start because students residing in the boundary, one of the lowest

15% performing schools and coming from households earning less than 250% of the federal poverty guideline would have a lifeline, literally. And that's what parents want.

Now, when I've talked with you before about where this happens, we're getting into budget season, we already are. You said there might not be too much of a push on school choice this time around. I know the lifeline bill dropped again.

What is it that we need to do? You're a strategist, a military person, a colonel. What is it that parents and others, do we have to wait to the governor's race? Or is there something that's missing? I'm frankly kind of surprised that this is not a driving issue. Again, it had momentum before. It did. It received first consideration in the Senate on May 6, 2025. So it will get passed by the Senate. The thing we need to look at,

Will the House run it? And if history repeats itself, no, they won't run it. So I would think it would take, you know, parents calling their legislators and saying, you know, talking about how important this is, because the bottom line is this. If we do what's right for parents and kids, we're not going to go wrong. Yeah, absolutely. And to that point, we're seeing this even on the women in sports issue, that the House just doesn't do that. I blame some of the media. You would think,

on this issue.

Now, if they want to reject it, if they want to go on record and reject Lifeline,

and we're talking about the 15 school districts, you talked about 15 percent,

those kids, and say, no, we think that just more money.

Let's have that debate.

But what's the atmosphere that you think is not pressuring, because they only have, what,

a one-vote advantage, Democrats in Harrisburg, that were at least not having that debate?

I think there are 10 or 12 Democrats potentially that could vote for this.

I agree. I think if it made it to the floor in the House, it would pass.

And it would be bipartisan for sure.

You know, there are so many examples all across the Commonwealth about how these, you know, charter schools help different kids.

And I want to give you one example from my county in Bradford County because it's so rural.

So there's a Marissa Weiss, and she's a senior at Achievement House Cyber Charter School.

So she didn't have a lot of options when it came to education because we live in a very rural area and she's biracial and you know what she was bullied in school because of it. So she went to her guidance counselor and she talked about switching to their high school's online program. The guidance counselor refused saying it would affect her grades and so you know what she and her family made the decision to switch to an online cyber charter school and now she is a senior, she is thriving, her grades have improved every single quarter

And she works as a global studies intern. And so there are examples, you know, all over the Commonwealth, you know, about why a program like PASS would work, because we need to empower kids or parents to do, you know, what's best for their kids. And setting up our kids for success in the future, as you and I talked about, it starts with a great education.

I'm glad you mentioned her by name. A colleague of mine, a friend, Guy Shiraki, just wrote a big piece, Broad and Liberty in Philadelphia, where, by the way, we want to see you more as you move around the state. Cyber charter students are the pinata in Harrisburg. Now, where I am in Philadelphia, I've interviewed for this podcast and my own radio show, any number of people, the mass school in northeast Philadelphia one year had 9,000 people, just one charter school on the way.

And yet we can't get past the, shall we say, cockamamie restrictions.

You can only have this. You can't do that when there's demand out there.

But the cyber charter students, Guy Sharaki says, they are the ones that seemingly they go after and say something like it's frivolous.

You've just mentioned a success story from that.

Yes. And I just recently visited the Harrisburg Cyber Charter School, and it was amazing.

I mean they had teenage kids that were parents. They had kids from poor areas that would work during the day and then go to school at night. I mean they really served so many different children's situations. Because education it can't be done with a cookie cutter approach. Parents want not just a safe environment for their children to learn but they want a teaching style that's going to align with the needs of their children.

and that's going to maximize their achievement. And I think, and I know you do as well, that choice in education is the best way to make this happen. Parents being able to take control of their children's education gives kids a real shot at the future. And you know what? It might be their one and only shot. Dom? Yeah, and again, I wanted to bring it all home here with you. Your background intrigues me because I'm from South Philly. I know Philadelphia. I grew up in a middle-class neighborhood. South Philly was the greatest place in the world.

But there are pockets in Philadelphia where it's really difficult.

I don't know what would have happened to me if I had to go to a school there.

Your experience wasn't quite like that.

But for these kids in rural Pennsylvania, and I see you in your bones understanding that,

there seem to be the similar sort of stuff, limited choice, just lack of resource,

maybe not as woke as the things parents object to in the cities.

But speak to that for a moment. We don't hear that enough in Pennsylvania here in the Philadelphia area, etc. The needs of those students in rural Pennsylvania. Yeah, so out of our 67 counties, 48 are considered rural. And there are very limited choices. There truly are. And I was hearing stories about, you know, some of these parents not wanting their kids to read certain books. And you know what? A cyber charter gives parents.

the opportunity to say, okay, if you don't want your kids to read this book, then here's a choice of five other books you can choose from. So yeah, rural kids, it is a whole different set of challenges. But the bottom 15% of poor performing schools, they're not just in the Southeast. There are two in Bradford County. So they are all across the Commonwealth.

Yeah, absolutely. Well, good luck with this. And hopefully we're going to talk down the road toward possibly seeing you run for governor or at least continuing in this role. And again, thank you for your service on so many levels. And I hope that your experience here will broaden this whole idea of who would benefit from school choice. Thank you, Stacey, very much. Thanks, Dom. Thanks for having me. You are welcome. All right. That's Stacey Garrity with Dom G.

She is definitively going to run for governor, I think, and hope that she does. We'll see that in the near future. But one of the things we talked about there, Guy Shiraki wrote at Broad and Liberty when I just got done talking with Stacey about, and she gave an example of the students, the cyber charter students. He asked at Broad and Liberty, Guy, why are we not celebrating cyber charter schools instead of punishing them? Over 70,000 students at

a school that works for them that they choose and choose to stay in.

And it only costs Pennsylvanians about 66 percent of what it costs if the students had attended their local school district that they do not want to attend.

What is it about this?

And what is it about this is we have people that are enemies of choice.

And we are on the cusp, I believe, in this podcast.

What we're trying to do, this is the ultimate parental rights, the right to choose the school.

for your kids, be it a charter, a cyber charter, a private school, a Catholic school, whatever it may be. The good news this week is that this is now in the national debate, not just state by state. In other words, what is being called by President Trump, the big, beautiful bill, has an intriguing proposal in there that might make it through, I think it will make it through the House, maybe even the Senate, and that is,

It's something that has school choice people who have labored all these years,

giddy almost. What it would do is allow Americans to contribute to a fund that they get a tax credit for,

for their own taxes, and then upwards of $5 billion would be out there for parents like the

requirements that I just talked about with Stacey Garrity would be able to use that money to have a choice.

In Pennsylvania, we talked about the fact that Representative Martina White and Clint Owlett introduced once again, this is May 19th, the Lifeline Scholarship Bill. They say every student learns differently. They shouldn't be punished for that because of where they live or because their parents don't have the means to find something better. Our kids and their families deserve to have a choice. Choice brings competition. Harrisburg has for too long failed these families.

And they go through the statistics that I talked about. How can we have 18 schools in the state of Pennsylvania where not one student in the Keystone exams, not one in those 18 schools? Why in the world would we allow that? Not one proficient in reading or math. One other thing, too. A study out now shows that, again, what this does when you have choice in the manner we're talking about here in Pennsylvania.

or nationally, when you have choice, what happens is the public schools have to get better. If they don't, they will go out of business also. And even if it's slight, that's helping the kids in the public schools. So this week, Stacey Garrity laid out beautifully what goes on. We often think of the inner cities, and that's true. There's a lot of poverty, a lot of difficulty, a lot of challenges in family life.

And I get very angry when you hear people on the other side of this that say, well, those parents, how would you trust them to make a decision about their kids' education? Well, I would trust them because whatever kind of parenting they're doing deep down, they know best what's best for their child. And they love their child more than anybody else could. And that's all that you need to make a choice toward a better way.

One other thing to mention this week here on Old School, New School, Next School. I'm looking at a book this week called The Lost Decade, Steve Wilson. And it talks about how an education miracle was destroyed. It talks about how hot at one point charter schools were in the late 90s, early 2000s, when the first charter schools were opening, promising to be engines of innovation.

Schools like KIPP, Achievement First, Uncommon Schools, Yes Prep, the Noble Schools,

didn't just talk about high expectations. Teachers and staff embodied them and enforced them.

You've had to have seen that on TV at one point or another. What happened? Well, they were taken down by those that didn't like the manner in which they want about it, even though the parents liked the manner that they want about it.

How do we know? Because they were successful. Because they had parents that were entrusting their kids to it. So throughout old school, new school, next school, I'll be talking about this book and talking about exactly how the other side of this issue is enabling crippling by regulation, by drying up funding, by constant attacks, or as Stacey Garrity, the treasurer, said today, not allowing it to come up for a vote.

Why in Pennsylvania would we not have a vote on the lifelines? It would pass. It would pass with bipartisan. It would pass the Senate. Why in the world are they able to shut that out? If you want to say, look, it's the enemy of public schools, then people should vote that way and say, no, I protect public schools. I'll vote against it. But it at least should come up for a vote. My name is Dom Giordano. Hope you enjoyed this week.

If you have a question, if you have a comment, you want to get in touch with me, you have a story, just send me an email. DOMSHOW, D-O-M-S-H-O-W, all one word, at AOL.com. I'll be happy to respond. Maybe you know someone we should talk with. Maybe you have an idea and angle. DOMSHOW at AOL.com. Thanks for listening to this week's edition of Old School, New School, Next School.

Old School, New School, Next School with Dom Giordano is a presentation of Giordano Productions LLC. Copyright 2025. All rights reserved.