School districts across the country are touting increased graduation rates but still low …

Welcome to Old School, New School, Next School with Dom Giordano, a podcast devoted to shedding light on issues pertaining to making America smart again. These include, among many topics, school choice and parental rights. This podcast is dedicated to reversing the deeply disturbing trend known as the dumbing down of America. Now, here's your host, Educator.

and noted talk media commentator dom giordano all right everyone welcome into this week's edition of old school new school next school with dom giordano with you and we have a great guest this week michael harrison publisher of talkers and band member of gun hill road that's important because we're going to be talking about what we do every week and how to achieve it make america smart again we think there are two major ways to do that one school choice

Should Be Obvious, were winning on that. And parental rights, I think were sort of winning on that. We talked to Michael before about Gun Hill Road and one of their hit songs, Idiots. One of the lyrics, ignorance is the real disease, lazy speech, often hazy. They got a great reaction to this, and so did we. People love the song, the band. It's well done, but also it taps into repeatedly.

something that people fear is happening in America.

And we don't see the formula to push back on that.

And that is idiocy.

One of the new rages that I found here has caused quite a stir in Pennsylvania

is that high school credentials are given as a pathway to graduating.

In other words, students across Pennsylvania, it's called pathways, do not have to pass

the Keystone exam, which is kind of an exit exam.

They don't have to pass or be proficient in reading, writing, math.

All they have to do is present evidence that they should be able to graduate high school.

One piece of evidence that's incredibly popular is a two-hour online course in multiple levels of ladder safety.

Single ladders, multiple ladders.

That's right.

That's what they're doing unmonitored.

The kid does it allegedly, gets this, and then the school helps him present this as evidence that he should be a high school graduate. Michael Harrison, we may have to put an addition onto idiots and have a kid on a ladder or something singing the song, because this seems to me is the enabling of this at a level that's almost hard to believe.

I have an old saying, Dom. The game is played the way the game is scored. So if suddenly you can get home runs in football, you'd have people throwing the football into the stands on purpose. Everything. If you really think about it, the game is played the way the game is scored. And if all you need to do to graduate from high school is know how to open a ladder or stand on one or jump off one or fall off one or stay,

steady. Well, then what you've done is to use another metaphor is you've lowered the bar. And that's what's happening. I've spoken to a number of teachers that I know. And this is not just on the high school level and it's not just in Pennsylvania. It's also on the college level where the college students are being looked upon as clients, as customers. And the customer is always right. And I've had a number of college professors tell me that the trend is going to be a good way to get a good way to get a good way to get a good way to get a good way to get a good way to get a

toward passing students by coming up with the simplest ways of measuring their growth, measuring their retention, their ability to understand, to have critical thinking about any topic is challenged by the parents and by the school's administration. They actually take professors aside and say, can you give them a C? Does it have to be a D or worse? Did you have to fail them? And the professor would say, they didn't do anything.

They never got anything right. They didn't show up in class. Yeah, but this is going on. Now, I don't, you know, what did I miss out on when I was in school, both college and high school? Well, Michael, to that point, I was going to raise it with you, too. Harvard, as we speak, as we're doing this today, is going through the great debate. Two-thirds of students in the last semester, two-thirds, 67%, I think it was, have gotten AIDS. So Harvard's trying to say, wait a minute,

Great inflation, but two-thirds. So what they want to do is put a quota, a cap, on the number of A's in any one class, and students are in revolt. One girl on the cover of this story says she sobbed herself to sleep for three or four nights. We can't be doing this. This is Harvard. It's not Podunk University. Right. And if it's already reached the level of Harvard, then where does that leave us? You know, and we're in this little bubble here, thinking that this is a normal

and things are normal. And we wish think. We come up with terms like American exceptionalism. And we're the greatest nation in the world. But I think the first thing you have to do if you want to be the greatest anything in the world is work out at it. Is practice. Championship teams practice. Actors and actresses on Broadway rehearse. You just don't

think you're great because you say you're great. And this is happening. And then there's the whole issue about Generation Z and the younger generations coming up behind Generation Z. And I think you pointed it out the last time we talked. We've actually been working backwards in terms of results. We're not just stagnant. We're going backwards. Exactly. Of scores and grades. There's this tendency to label the entire generation as being entitled.

that they feel that they're, you know, the whole idea of a participation trophy.

When a high school degree or a college degree or university degree becomes a participation trophy, well, then how are we going to possibly compete in the world?

And we're seeing that now with the news that's going on.

You know, there's a much bigger world out there, duh, than just our own communities and our own country and our own pop culture.

And we've got a serious problem. So, you know, my reaction, of course, I think that idiocy and ignorance, and they're two different things, but they overlap, are terrible threats to our freedom and our democracy, terrible threats to our way of life. It's more than any foreign country. It's more than, you know, a pandemic, although that can be the result of ignorance as well. We're in deep doo-doo when it comes to competing

in the world arena. And I don't know how we turn it around. Of course, programs such as this are a good step, but it's got to be a lot more, a lot more.

And to that point, we're up to now, since the last time we spoke, 29 states now will accept the big, beautiful bill money, which again, people who listen each week know this is money from the big, beautiful bill. The no tax on tips is in there. It's new money. It's not taken away from the public schools.

And I wanted to talk with you about this, this type, because of your song, Idiots. How in the world do we have people that both are blocking this? Any number of people have voted against it. Two sitting governors, one in Kansas, one in Kentucky, were overridden by the legislature. Polis, who is on the left, a Democrat in Colorado, took it saying, I'm not an idiot. Surrounding states would get that money then.

And again, Michael, it seems to be people don't have this knowledge of what's going on here with this. This is a major thing for anybody that cares about their kid or the future of their state or their country. It's just free money that's been put out here in the big, beautiful bill you can access to send your kid to the school of your choice. So I wonder how many parents are okay with the public schools that we just talking about.

doing what they do. If they give the kid a piece of paper and they get it out there in the world, they get the piece of paper. I'm not really sure politically the details of the so-called big, beautiful bill or any bill that comes from Congress and any act that comes through Congress that becomes a bill, that becomes a law, whatever, how that whole thing goes. Because there's so much stuff that's squeezed in and hidden. So I'm not even sure I understand your point in bringing that up.

My point is, you know, aside from the other things in the bill, it's very clear.

The money goes to the states, to nonprofits, and then they give the money to parents who apply.

In some states, the waiting list could be 100,000 people already.

That's how much demand is there.

And the people that are blocking this have not given any reason why.

And now we have three Democrat governors and more are considering this.

Even Pritzker in Illinois, who's a candidate for president apparently, is considering it because it's money that will go somewhere else and his constituents can use it to get to the school of their choice. So where does that put Pritzker in terms of being pro or con school choice and parental rights? He's against it overall, usually. But even he now realizes two things. One, the logic we're talking about of this. And two, the politics of this.

They want it in their state. Huge numbers of people want to take advantage of it. And if he goes for this, I think, A, it would help him politically, ultimately. And B, it would start all but the most recalcitrant from going with this. Even people that don't like Trump, don't like the politics of this, whatever, would sign off on this. It's a no-brainer. That's why he's looking at it.

Would you say that because there is so much pushback and distrust about Donald Trump that some of the benefits toward education that are in the big beautiful bill are being overlooked because anything that comes out of Trump is no good to many many people politically or otherwise? What I think it is and it's one of the things we talk about here the public school teachers unions they don't want this stuff because they realize they have a I think a failed

But it's a monopoly. It still has huge amounts of money and kids going to their schools. So every time one of these Democrats particularly goes for this, boy, that's really a dagger. And it has implications. Gavin Newsom, who I think is, in my view, the leading candidate for Democrats, Josh Shapiro is in the top three in Pennsylvania. Both have not said anything one way or the other. What I'm thrilled about, Michael, and you've been very helpful with this, it's that this,

The issue is front page now, school choice and this whole deal. It's not back page and all. This would be so freeing in the way that I see it and the other side sees it as so detrimental to their issues. They don't want to debate it. We would have them on and debate it. What objection would you have to parents and kids making a choice? You're still getting the full funding of the public schools. This is new money that's been set aside for the purpose of parenting.

choosing a school across the country.

What is the gripe against these things that these people have?

You say they don't want to debate it.

They gesture against it.

They're not explaining it.

If we were to have a respectable person who's opposed to it, what would their point be?

In other words, what is their opposition based on?

Well, their opposition is based on maybe a respectable one would be a little bit different.

But the ones that usually are out there, from the teachers' unions and others, that would be either, A, the parents are not the best judge of what school the kids should go to. B, somehow or another, you'll see fewer kids going to the public schools by making this choice. That would weaken the entire public school division. They say things like, well, will these schools that they're going to do the same things we do with special ed, with all kinds of other needs?

And my answer to these is the basic thing. Don't we believe everybody? On either side of the great divide, individual choice is something, at least on paper, everybody says they want. Be it issues like choice with reproductive, choice with where you live. Everybody is in favor of that. Those are the arguments. I don't find them compelling, and that's why 29 governors have signed off on this.

They're signing off on the fact that their state then gets allotted. In some cases, it could be a half billion to a billion dollars that goes to nonprofits that are set up through the government and the state. They then parents apply to them for money to go to the school of their choice. And it depends upon the state how much they would get each year. So that's that's one part of it. Why 29 have signed off on it? This comes into play in 2027. So this is the ramp up period.

2026 for each state to take time. In some states, the governor is all that matters. If the governor says yay, then it's yay. If the governor says no, then it's no. In some states like Kansas and Kentucky, the legislature was able to override both governors there. And Kansas is just recently. And they have overridden them overwhelmingly. I mean, like two to three to one saying, you take that money so our constituents can get it.

The presidential politics are, you have as governors, people like Pritzker in Illinois, Newsom in California, Shapiro in Pennsylvania, probably one or two others that might run. And when a guy like Polis, who I think is one of the smarter Democrats really politically out there in Colorado, but somebody who is more than just center left, is kind of left, signed off on this, it sent a signal, three other Democrat governors,

then said, we rejected it, but now we're rethinking it. Pritzker's won.

So here's what could happen. Somebody can be the big loser or big winner here, big time on the Democrat side, because if one of them takes it and there is enough of a groundswell to propel them forward, which I think could happen, that will knock down the power of the teachers unions to have a veto power.

If I'm wrong, and they still have their veto power, that will sink them. It's that big of an issue.

Where do you think it's going to go?

I think that probably not Newsom. I think Pritzker is going to roll the dice, and that's why he's reconsidering, and I think he's going to go for it. And I think he's feeling he's not top dog yet, but that this may really help him. Shapiro is such a wild card. He's going to wait to the very end.

And he's looking for some way to say he did or didn't do both. Very hard to say. In the end, I don't think he'll go for it. He's going to take it down to the wire. And parents need to know now if that money will be there next year. So watch Pritzker would be my sense. And again, great question. And I'm thrilled that this may actually have impact on who the next president, at least the nominee, is going to be. On the Republican side, I think they're all going to be

I don't know who has the upper hand Rubio somebody like that or Vance at this point this is how big it's gotten and the more we educate people that this is doable for them to make a choice for their kid and the magic of this almost the more you're going to see this be a big issue. Do you think that any of the issues that the hypothetical third person in this conversation would bring up have has any merit are you concerned that if in

In fact, school choice and parental. Yeah, yeah, a reasonable person. And my answer to that would be tell me what the objection is, if you're reasonable, and we'll tailor this state by state. They have the ability to tailor this toward meeting the needs, you know, the exact mechanism of these nonprofits, what the requirement of the school would be that gets the money. They can tailor that. So the money flows from the feds and the mechanism,

is state by state. And I love that type of stuff. So a reasonable person would say, here's my objection. And at least you would have a battle state by state. In other words, you're not going to have fly by night schools getting the money here. That's not how this is going to play out. Do parents know in general what's best for their kids? I'm not suggesting they don't, but it goes back to what we were talking about before. Oh, yeah. Well, the general intelligence of the nation and the role parents play.

in exercising their rights from the perspective of a teacher.

I would answer this again.

There are certain things where a parent, I often say this with reading, the parent is the first and best teacher with that.

If you're a reader, you encourage reading.

That helps it more than some expert in school doing phonics, which is necessary to technically do it.

And the point is this Forbes magazine.

They spent an entire podcast going after. They had six points against school choice. And two or three of them basically said, you can't trust these parents to do it. We're in worse trouble than I thought. A parent who is that concerned and senses what's going on with their own kid is the best judge of what will work for that kid. Picture trying to tell that to a mom, particularly dads too, but a mom who went

through labor, bearing that child, mother's love. And they are not going to know better how in the world from a central, this is like being in Russia, how would a central agency, even if they were smart, ever be able to determine that child versus, I'll say their mom, but their mom and dad, Michael, impossible. So I'm going to go with the parents on this. I'm a homer. The parental rights on this. And if it doesn't work with this, what do they do? They can choose.

That's the beauty of it. And those options that don't work, what's going to happen? They're going to go out of business. But we do know this a lot. A growing army of people across the country know that their local public school, for one reason, and not blaming all teachers or whatever, is not performing up to snuff for their kids. Some of it is because teachers are under fire. You have some violent kids. You have some violent parents. You have stupid regulations going on. You have kids passing with ladders.

A lot of parents are doing cyber charters now because they're afraid of their kid even walking to school could be shot, attacked, and then in school, there's a lot of violence on the kid.

It's just obviously very complicated, and it does come down to parents. It really does. It's all about parents making choices. It's all about parents exercising influence over schools, over teachers, over the unions, and over politicians to make this happen.

happen. And I only hope that you are correct, that the parents basically know what's best for their kids, and they base it on diligent performance as parents.

There are a lot of parents out there, but this, I see school choice as an aid because you can't fight City Hall by yourself. And you may not have the means to jump and go to a school, you know, an independent school, Catholics, whatever it might be.

This is just an aid for those parents who are tired and get run down and feel frustrated.

They see their kid is not learning or their kid is afraid or they sense what's going on in the school is not what they want.

Indoctrination, things of that nature. This offers them freedom.

It is the civil rights issue of our time.

And you have really helped me today to highlight politically, if we could get this as one, two or three, the biggest issues.

Look, affordability, things like that, and the upcoming presidential race.

But if this is hotly debated, there won't be as much ignorance out there.

People will go, whoa, I didn't know that. You mean that's an option?

The other side can say what they want. They can say, this is just a plot to do whatever.

Let's have the public debate. If that happens, I'll be happy.

To me, it comes down to the state of mind of general Americans, the state of mind about education.

Do we hold education high or do we hold education low? I'm sure there are parents out there telling their children, you know, you don't want to be an elitist in their own language. And it's good to be stupid. See, I approach this from a populist, not even a populist, from a contemporary cultural point of view. What is our culture in this country? Are we a culture that emphasizes with pressure and social pressure and

family pressure and government pressure and public pressure to make sure that our kids do well. I get the feeling that in certain Asian countries, in certain parts of the world, it's in the fabric of the pop culture that you want to be smart, that you want to achieve something. And I'm getting the feeling that it's in our pop culture, at least on an increasing level, where not only is there

There is pressure to be dumb. And that ignorance is rewarded.

I have hope, though, that there are umpteen numbers of parents who realize what we're talking about here.

And they are hell-bent to have their child that's saying being smart is always the way to go.

Making smart cool again, that's a mission that's like launching to the moon and landing again.

But at least making America smart again, where it counts, I think is exactly there. And in some cultures, it's exactly there. I mean, I was the first in my family to go to college and it wasn't drummed into my head. It was just a natural thing. I was lucky. You probably had the same kind of background. And those that don't, I feel sad for them, but they shouldn't be able to hold hostage the kids whose parents do get that and are trying to get their kid to get to their full potential.

You know what amazes me? You know, you're talking, you just referred to the Artemis mission that we just recently witnessed. You know, sometimes we throw the word genius around very freely, like a football quarterback is a genius or a musician is a genius. A pop star is a genius. Well, the guys that figured out how to send this rocket to the moon and go around and come back and keep four people alive. Now, these people,

are geniuses. It amazes me how the human species comes in so many different categories when it comes to how we use our brains. We have the capacity to do so much. We are so inherently intelligent and yet so obviously stupid. I get angry about it and I try to curtail my anger. So much of the stuff that we put into the Gun Hill Road song idiots.

It's based on a topic that's been talked about before. Going all the way back to that movie, you know, decades ago, Idiocracy. Yes. Where the nation is just becoming intrinsically stupid. If Hollywood's listening, that would be a great sequel because it's gotten worse since then. Make it better now to do a better job of it. Oh, yeah. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Well, Michael, thank you. And again, where do we find Gun Hill Road? Where do we find all the things that you can find?

you guys have been able to do, particularly Idiots.

Well, Idiots is with all of our stuff at one major website that has all the songs that we've done, because we've done a number of social commentary songs in the last decade.

And talk radio plays the heck out of it.

And we have we have about a million active fans around the world on the Internet.

And we talk about scams. And we talk about idiots. And we talk about freedom of speech. So idiots and a lot of our other videos, music and video, can be seen and watched and listened to at GunHillRoadMusic.com. That's GunHillRoadMusic.com. And as Dom pointed out, folks, check out Idiots First, because it's top of mind.

But you might find some of these other songs to be mind-tickling.

They're cerebral, they're intelligent, and we're getting great response to it.

And I thank you for giving me the opportunity to talk about that.

It's really important that all of the BS that's out there in the news doesn't overshadow some of the really important things that affect our lives.

And this is one of them.

And my fear as part of the dumbing down of America is that the media does not live up to its responsibility to make sure that these important topics are being aired out, explored, investigated, and discussed. You're doing a great job on this podcast and on your daily radio show. And I only encourage more people in talk media and the media in general to understand that the survival of this nation's democracy depends

on this very topic that you have been championing. Thank you, Michael, very much. And thanks to everyone else each week. Tell other people about it. Old School, New School, Next School. Old School, New School, Next School with Dom Giordano is a presentation of Giordano Productions, LLC. Copyright 2026. All rights reserved.