Guest: Rich Valdes, host, “America at Night” Subjects: The charter school that he founded…

Welcome to Old School, New School, Next School with Dom Giordano, a podcast devoted to preserving your parental rights, including the right to choose the best school for your child. This podcast is dedicated to gaining the option of school choice for every parent in America.

Here's your host, educator and noted talk media commentator, Dom Giordano.

Hey, welcome this week, everyone. Dom Giordano with you. Special guest this week. He's a reverend. He's a big advocate for education, and some would say he's a concert impresario, which we'll get to in a moment. The Reverend Joshua G. Robertson joins us.

Reverend, I meant by impresario that you have quite a creative concept going.

We'll get to what Black Pastures United for Education specifically does.

But you and I are in sync.

I was shocked.

You're on the ground, though, to learn that the big, beautiful bill we had on the guy driving it in the house has this program in there that would liberate thousands, if not tens of thousands of children and their parents.

Tell us first of all about what's in the Big Beautiful Bill and this concert slash town hall you have that is helping to promote all this. Sure. So as it relates to the Big Beautiful Bill, I know there's one provision and it called the Education Choice for Children's Act, which would from the federal level, it will be the first of its kind to have a federal designation to help children and their parents.

to have a resource that can help them to make educational decisions that parents desperately need to make. And for me, as one, you see, I approach this not as a politician, but as a pastor. And so as a pastor, you know, I am the one who helps the family to grieve after the young one was shot and killed in the community. I'm the pastor who has to help the family deal with the person in their family who has mental health issues.

I'm the pastor that has to help parents to grieve through, you know, unmet potential and possibilities that their children should have when they're in unfit educational systems. And so for me, I see a resource. I see the ECCA bill as a resource to be leveraged by pastors, community leaders, to provide nontraditional educational spaces in their churches and allow our own taxpayer dollars to help them.

and help with that vision. And what I love about it is everybody wins, right? It doesn't take away from any other school system or anything like that. This is a federal designation. I think it's one of its kind. And I really want to see our president to get this deal done. America needs this. And so our youth need this. And so I'm hoping that people will put politics aside and see this resource as something that we need to utilize to really redeem who America is.

And so I think education is saving America in this 21st century if we do it right.

Yeah, and we'll talk about your unique nonpartisan, nonprofit approach to this.

As I understand it, we've talked with Dave McCormick, who's the sponsor in the Senate, pastor as part of this.

It's only $5 billion. He wanted to go $10 billion.

You and I probably say $50 to $100 billion.

It's such a simple thing that would open up, and you bring a unique.

I've already spoken to nationwide, maybe 15 or 20 really interesting people that have founded charter schools.

We've spoken to the president of the building trades in Philadelphia, who's a friend, and that's one of the biggest unions imaginable.

And he's a union guy, and he's completely in favor of it.

Talk about your unique part, though, of what the protocol would be or what your setup is that you're proposing. It's small. There's different commitments here. But this has the ultimate buy-in and commitment to parents. And it has a moral and a religious basis to it, as I understand it.

Sure. I mean, you look at it and say, okay, you have churches, and I believe church buildings are the most underutilized pieces of real estate in America, right? Like you would, in no other business do you buy a property at the value of these church buildings and maintain them, their upkeep and everything else to use once or twice a week for a few hours, right? Most of these rooms that you think of on Sunday mornings are Sunday school rooms.

for our kids could be used through the week to meet the crisis that we're in. I don't think a lot of people really understand the crisis that we are in. And the statistics don't lie. You look at the NAEP scores and you see white, black, Hispanic children in America are not reading at grade level when they finish high school. Right. So what if churches, religious organizations, communities, even the fraternities and so forth,

the D9 community, if they would utilize this ECCA bill and parents could opt into afterschool programs or summer enrichment programs or learning centers like how we have, or even private schools, or even if the kids are in public schools, what if these resources could be used for tutoring programs or books or any other needs that the parent deems necessary, right? And I think that, you know, so it's an opportunity for education entrepreneurs to

to leverage this bill in order to offer educational resources to their community.

And it's an opportunity for parents to finally get the assistance that they need to help their children with their education.

So for me, I'm excited about this bill because really everyone wins if we do it right.

What about the objectors who, boy, they're hearing this and sadly they go off the rails and they say, yeah, this reverend seems like a great guy.

these guys are doing good work but church and state this is religious

indoctrination so how do you avoid that or is that part of it is religion part of what you're doing

here the ignorance can be educated right and this is what i would tell the person right

we're in america that cherishes religious freedom in fact you know that might be why we are here as

as Americans, because we cherish that. And the reality is we're not just trying to educate students at a mind level. We're also trying to build the next generation of people with character, with morals, with ethics, with respect for each other and a fidelity to even our country. So how do you do that? And I look at you right now, my brother, you are in a tailored,

Nice Tailored Suit, right? That's the world that we live in now, right? Where everybody's tailoring everything. Everything is custom made, right? And we should do the same with education, right? We shouldn't say one size fits all for education. No, we should have, we're America. We should have the most robust offerings of education. I look in rural America, right? I think rural America has such a phenomenal opportunity if they would leverage school choice to say, okay, well, if we're going to

who's fracking right now right well that's great well who's going to be fracking in 30 years

right let's say in rural america you think about all the agricultural opportunities in rural america well

who's going to do it in 30 years so what if there's private schools that we're leveraging our own

taxpayer dollars and education entrepreneurs so these people who are in these industries

could invest in education and start introducing these industries to kids when they're in fourth

as opposed to when they're 23 years old. And many of them waste money in college, go to a college. They major on one thing and get out and go into a completely different career field. So I think really America, we're on the cutting edge of using our innovation and our ingenuity and applying it to education, which has been long overdue. We apply it to every other industry in America. It's time to apply it to education.

To that point, the head of the building trades in Philadelphia, you probably have crossed paths with him, wrote a column saying he was involved in fixing I-95 when it blew up. We ought to have the same urgency to fix what's going on. And you have the same mindset. I don't know why that would, you just made a great point. I'm a former teacher. Why would that be so foreign to education, which is probably the most important of all? We look for a solution, either that or we go out of business.

Well, here's the thing. I mean, I think the only people who are dissenters of education

freedom are ones who exercise it by means of they can afford it. Right? These are the only people

who object to it. And if you sent your kid, if you moved out of an area to make sure that your kid was in a good public school because the public schools in another area were good, you've exercised choice.

If you sent your kid to a private school, you've exercised choice.

You weren't relegated to the zip code that you live in.

And all I'm saying is that should be an American right as opposed to a privilege, especially when we are all taxpaying citizens.

And so for me.

Now, Reverend, you're principally based in Harrisburg.

I don't have boots on the ground.

I'm in Philadelphia, which is a disastrous public system where you have schools where three to five percent of the kids are proficient in those statewide tests and an enormous amount of money is spent. How about in Harrisburg? As you see it, you're interacting your program versus that. What is it they can't do or what is missing there, do you think? Well, I mean, I think although I do believe that the teachers, the principals,

that are working directly with the kids are well-intentioned, right? And I think the principals and the teachers, the people closest to the children have the children's best at heart. And I believe that. The problem is the people who are closest to the children are not the ones controlling the system. And so it's a system that exists that is not, you know, really designed for our children to thrive the way that, you know, we want them to.

And what I mean to say that is people think that our public school system is broken. I like the challenge that it's the Prussian model that maybe it's working exactly the way that it was originally designed to work. Right. And here's why I say that. I say this, just like I was getting at, everything in our world today is customizable. Right. And why aren't we looking like that same? Why aren't we taking that same approach to education?

Especially when we're expecting these children who we see today now, right, in 30 years, they're going to have to compete and collaborate in a global economy, right? Are we prepared? Is our current educational system today preparing them to compete and collaborate at that level? And I say no. And I say, why not be American and design and curate an educational system that is well-funded, but that has multiple options?

so that in the future, we're able to continue the legacy of what makes us Americans.

Do you believe we're talking with Pastor Joshua C. Robertson? Is it I see in your literature and I wanted to talk about this? You're a unique guy. I mean, I've been told that by mutual friends, etc. Is this scalable? What you're doing, what you're proposing? Or does it take someone with your background and ability to do it? Could you could you scale up the innards of your program here?

Oh, absolutely. So what I think is just so generationally potentially impactful is everywhere where you see a problem, there's a cluster of churches that have a space and people within that church to make a difference, right? Like at my own church, right? There's a seasoned educator in my church.

There's a professor at a local college in my church. There are several educators, teachers in my local church. Right. We could come up with our own schools. Every church in America has these type of people in them. And I think that if we would use that open real estate, now you're talking about an entry that is like none other. One of the things that are barriers to start schools is you got to buy a property. Right. And that's one. That's a huge,

for a startup company. But what happens when you already have the property?

And now if you have school choice laws that are correct and that are responsible,

now each kid that comes to the school comes with a book bag of taxpayer dollars.

So for me, right now, I look at it and say, in Pennsylvania,

it costs on average $20,000 to $25,000 per kid per year to educate them.

and we're getting results like 3% in math proficiency and 13% in reading proficiency. Well, hold on. At the Rock City Learning Center and the five learning centers we have in Pennsylvania, for a fraction of the cost, made like $6,000 a year, all of our kids are passing and doing well, right? So it's not more money, better education. We've been doing that for the last 30 years. That doesn't work.

We need smaller classrooms.

We need people in the community there with the students every day, helping them.

And we need to stop playing around with reading and math.

How can we be teaching our kids these ideological ideas that is beyond them?

I think, you know, gender, sexuality, those are things that parents need to be teaching.

Why are we trying to teach them in our schools?

I wanted to bring that in as we're speaking and taping this podcast, Reverend.

The Supreme Court just as ruled today, Friday the 27th, that in Maryland, and these parents were mainly Muslim, they were denied the right to have their pre-K and kindergarten kids opt out of literature classes in which the books were all saying the king marries the knight, things of that nature. And that's a fundamental American principle that was violated, freedom of religion.

I like it, but you can opt out of some of the more severe things. And the Supreme Court essentially said, as we're talking here, are you kidding me? Of course the parents can opt out. The point I'm talking about is, isn't this just another example of why school choice, making a choice with yours or a thousand other modalities out there would help us solve this when the schools won't even compromise on saying when you object to something, you should be able to have an opt out.

Absolutely. I think school choice gives America the ability to be diverse, right? Because the reality is, if you are LGBTQIA, whatever persuasion that you are, school choice gives us a chance to say, hey, I don't believe in that, but I respect you. So how about this? You build your school where you all believe what you believe, and we build our school where we believe what we believe, and the control is in the hands of us.

the parents, not the institutions. You see, America is supposed to be about the people. We are, we're supposed to be a democracy, which means that we the people have a voice. And I think Americans are ready to use our voice. This is what I believe. This is why I'm so hopeful. I believe that now more than ever, although there may be tension in the air between races of people, between Democrats and Republicans, all of that, at least we are talking, right?

Because what really makes us free is this freedom of speech, right? And freedom of expression as long as it doesn't injure someone else's. So to me, I think school choice just makes sense that, you know, it doesn't make me have to be tolerant of something that I'm not, that I don't agree with. And it doesn't make us hostile. It makes it where you can build and not be. I want to make a point to you. In my estimation, doing this national levels, et cetera, you are a very dangerous guy, I can tell, after 15 minutes here. In that.

Uh-oh.

No, no, in that the following, you are articulating this in a manner that is so respecting the rights of others, but laying out diversity, you know, that's a criticism often that if we have school choice, it'll be a bunch of, quote, wealthy white people that will be taking advantage of it.

And so I just don't come with a mentality that anyone is superior. And so when I think of wealthy white people, I don't think of better than me.

I'm glad that I came from a tradition and a parent. My parents are ministers in the church. I grew up in the Church of God in Christ. So I was always taught to have pride and dignity as to who I am. So when people say that, it just doesn't resonate with me. I look at, if you look at the history of Black people in America, when we've stuck together and worked together and worked with others across the aisle and across races and everything, we've been absolutely fine.

And I'm trying to reclaim the legacy that we don't want the government in our business like that. We can build on our own, right? You know, my dad is 83 years old, you know, 50, 60 years ago. If him and his friends would have wanted to go across the street and buy that store and start their business in there, they had all type of hurdles and things like that, that we don't have. Exactly. And so I say now today, we all look at churches and you look at how many people in your churches are doing well.

for themselves, make good money for themselves. What stops that church from using their own church to build their own school where we teach our own children in our own communities? And so for me, I'm not, I look at school choice, not what rich anybody else can do for it. I look at it and say, look at what we can do for it. And why aren't we trying to? Yeah. Parting area for you too. If you would tell people first, where to find Black Pastors United for Education.

Two, you're a combination guy that comes across. That is, we're taping this, so people will find out later, but I'm sure there are going to be other events. You have a major gospel group coming in, sold out audience, but at the same time, it's in the middle of a town hall. So how is that going to work? Is there some singing, then some speechifying, and then back to the singing? How do you do that? Absolutely. We're going to mix it up. So here's the thing. And where is this that you do it?

It's at New Covenant Church of Philadelphia in Germantown, Pennsylvania.

Guess what? I'm looking out my window here. I am about four and a half blocks from the New Covenant Church. I know.

Well, if you come, I have a VIP seat for you. Just let me know. Absolutely. You're welcome to come.

What time does this start?

The doors open at 530. And the town hall slash concert starts at 7 p.m.

And it's at 7500 Germantown Avenue, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.

Yep, I know exactly where it is. And Black Pastors, I forgot the exact title here.

United for Education. Yes, Black Pastors.

Where do we go, Pastor?

So you can go to bpue.org

and find us there. And also on social media, on Instagram,

on Facebook, on YouTube, you can find us at

BPUE or Black Pastures United for Education. And we have a podcast.

And our podcast is called Up for the Challenge Podcast.

Our first episode was with Dr. Cornel West.

Our second episode was... Oh, wait a minute. Wait a minute. Let's say, Dan, I've had Dr. West

What was that like? Yes. So it was interesting that Dr. West is both a public school advocate and a fan of school choice. And that's one of the reasons why I wanted to meet with him because, you know, and he says it in the interview, right? If our public school system was stellar and we were doing well, then this wouldn't be a conversation, but it's not. And so we have to be, as he would call it, jazz-like improv.

And that's how we do it. And I agree. I think that's what we need to do.

I invite you in advance because my producer Dan will be contacting you to get you on the radio show. I really enjoyed this. We are counting down on the big, beautiful Bill. And after that comes into play, I certainly want to touch base with you again and help out in any way that we can. Good luck with the concert. Pastor, thank you very much for joining us.

Thank you for having me. It's an honor. Thank you for being a love warrior and fighting for the cause in your way. Thank you, Pastor, very much. The Reverend Joshua G. Robertson, what a charismatic up and coming guy that made a lot of sense, didn't he? It's very inclusive, but also very much giving an opportunity to parents in places like Harrisburg, Philadelphia to make an informed decision. And we talked a lot with him about the big, beautiful bill, the big, beautiful bill pending.

Let's hope within, well, July 4th is the date that we may have a vote on it. This would free up all kinds of monies for people like the pastor in schools all across America. It is a win-win-win. It's only $5 billion. I wish it were 10 or more. It is in there. If the bill passes, I think we're going to see it. And the case that we referenced was the case in Maryland, where mainly Muslim parents objected,

with their kids at the pre-K and the kindergarten level to books that were put in under the guise of literature that were very much the subject that parents would want to talk to their kids about, not just be thrown at them by teachers trying to indoctrinate them around transsexual, gender, those kinds of things. And the Supreme Court said religious freedom dictates that, yes, the parents would have the ability to opt to

out of that particular part of the class. The school district, if you can imagine, was contending that no, they don't. For the good of the community, those little kids, against the wishes of their parents, who are deeply devout in the Muslim faith, many of them, would have to endure this. Thank God the Supreme Court is on top of this. Why would it take a Supreme Court decision to say commonsensely, okay, you're in the public schools, they believe this is a social good to be teaching about this,

But we definitely have the right to opt out of this for the 15 minutes or so, whatever it might be, to remove your child from that. That's a basic thing. Should not take a six to three decision by the Supreme Court on that. So two big things on the school choice front that we're monitoring, particularly in the big, beautiful bill, as the pastor said, all kinds of good will come out of this. And you heard him say that his program is scalable.

Meaning, you could take what he's doing and do it just about anywhere.

This guy's an up-and-comer. Really enjoyed talking with him. Hope you enjoyed it, too.

If you have something you want to ask me about, if you have a criticism or a praise or just anything that you want to know, my name is Dom Giordano.

This is The School Choice Show.

Just send it to me at domshow, D-O-M-S-H-O-W at AOL.com.

DOM show d-o-m-s-h-o-w at aol.com we will see you next week here on the school choice show old school new school next school with dom giordano is a presentation of giordano productions llc copyright 2025 all rights reserved