What Is the Price of School Choice?

Welcome to Old School, New School, Next School with Dom Giordano, a podcast devoted to shedding light on issues pertaining to making America smart again. These include, among many topics, school choice and parental rights. This podcast is dedicated to reversing the deeply disturbing trend known as the dumbing down of America. Now, here's your host, educator.

and noted talk media commentator dom giordano hey everyone welcome in to this week's edition of old school new school next school with dom giordano special guest he's been with us many times he is a senior fellow at the commonwealth foundation big time columnist at broad and liberty will tell you exactly where to find all of his stuff guy shiraki he also has a big hand in politics and is a master softball coach and guy and i are going to

We try to take an area that we know pretty well that's in the news on two major things. Last week's podcast, one of them involved people in this area of Northeast Philadelphia, apparently sending their kids, maybe in some numbers, into the next school district over in Bucks County, Ben Salem School District, because of how unsatisfied they are with the Philadelphia public schools. Now, Northeast Philadelphia is a section of Philadelphia, I would say, by and large,

which isn't too bad overall maybe it's on a downhill spiral population of around 432,000 in the most recent census and it has become a diverse working class population including Polish, German, Jewish, Russian, African American, Brazilian, Puerto Rican, Dominican, Guatemalan, Ukrainian, Indian, Chinese, Irish and Vietnamese. Did I say Italian? No. They left that off. I have to put that in.

So, Guy, welcome in. And let's start with the first of big headlines around this. You were the driving force at Broad and Liberty and coming on the air and all over the place, exposing early on when Democrats in Pennsylvania, listeners to the podcast know Pennsylvania is on the cusp of a big decision. They're the biggest, they're the most key state with a presidential candidate. Will Josh Shapiro say yay or nay? He's got to go one way or the other.

on the money coming from the big, beautiful bill that would allow people to donate $1,700,

go through nonprofits, thousands and thousands of parents and kids will be helped by this.

So we are the big guy in this. And these Democrats in Harrisburg decided right before the budget,

back to the future or back to the past, they went back to trying to go after a scholarship program

that helps lower income to middle class people, many of them in Northeast Philadelphia, many of them moderate Democrats. They grew up as Democrats. A lot of the politicians there are Irish, quote, moderate versus the commies in the Democrat Party today. And it should shock anybody that they made that step. And you did a good job of zoning in on union members, cops, nurses, firefighters, kids,

who depend on this scholarship to have school choice.

What's the reaction in Northeast Philadelphia?

I'm asking this.

Until people learn the politics of this and vote according to this, and it's a lesson for every Republican because Democrats, by and large, are on the other side, making this a marquee issue.

A, it's a civil rights issue of our time.

But B, this is politically potent.

They were stopped, the Democrats.

But I don't see enough of a backlash of people pointing fingers and saying, how dare you? Yeah, I mean, look, you hit on so many of the important themes. I mean, start with the fact that the nation is looking at to expand school choice. The nation is looking to expand tax credits. Pennsylvania, which 25 years ago was one of the first states to have a tax credit scholarship program. Here we are 25 years later. This year, Dom, we passed over 1 million children.

One million Pennsylvanians have been helped by it. And the Democrat response in the

Pennsylvania House was not how do we learn, how do we expand, how do we do more, but how do we cut back?

Which I think tells you again about the leadership of the Democratic Party, first of all, and secondly, how willing rank and file members are to go along. Because to your point, the members of Northeast Philly have thousands and thousands of children.

that go to Little Flower and St. Hubert's and Ryan and, you know, St. Catherine of Siena and Holy Family and Nazareth Academy.

I mean, the thought that where you have the largest cluster of Jewish students, of Catholic students, of students of all faiths going to those schools, and you would actually try to undermine and torpedo the tax credit tuition assistance program is mind-blowing.

So the politics are this. It was a top-down decision. It was driven by the unions. The unions across the nation are telling the states like Pennsylvania not to opt into the federal program. But in Pennsylvania, they want a step further. They flexed their muscle and tried to actually torpedo the existing program to the politics of it. All of the Democratic legislators in Northeast Philly did a letter in the Northeast Times saying, don't believe what you're being told at school.

Don't believe what you're hearing on talk radio. We didn't do anything to hurt you. So we learned a lot. One is we learned how brazen the leadership is that they'll undermine school choice. But two, we learned that the parents and the teachers and the clergy of all faith weighed in and these guys felt pain. So they felt compelled to go to Facebook and the Northeast Times and say, hey, hey, we didn't mean to hurt you. Trust us. We didn't mean to hurt you. I think they did damage and they lost all credibility.

on the issue.

Well, I'm hoping so.

Now, did Republicans fight hard enough?

Easy for me to sit here, radio podcast.

During this budget, guys, school choice didn't move on this.

As I understand it, the public schools, one way or another, got about $900 million

more.

But Philadelphia Public Schools, and you're one of the prime guys to expose rats in school, having to go to bathrooms and trailers, let alone the inefficiencies, no air conditioning, proficiencies in reading and math. They got $157 million more. So hypothetical question, but I'm going to continue to play with this in this podcast, Guy. It occurred to me the other day. What would the ransom be? In other words, is there something, my ransom theory of school choice.

We'll give you this. To me, it's worth it. Whatever it is that Democrats need, we'll buy you off and you are going to let us have school choice of some sort in negotiation. Cold-blooded, we'll show up with bags of money. All right, take it with you and your teachers' unions and whatever else. Let our kids go. Is that, no, we're never going to say it quite that way, but is that doable? How do they get this money when they won't give any ground on the choice issue?

Look, I think you're 100% right, Dom. And I will tell you that in each of the budget crises, that's essentially what Senator Pittman and Senator Ward as the leaders of the Republican-controlled Senate said. Let's go back to the first budget. Remember, the governor had a $100 million Lifeline Scholarship Program built in his budget. The trade-off to the Dom Giordano theory was $1 billion in new spending for public education.

And the Senate Republicans said, we will give you a billion dollars, with a B, a billion dollars for public education if you give us a hundred million dollar trial voucher scholarship program for low-income families. And the Democrats walked away. A 10 to 1 ratio, which again, against the backdrop of a ratio that's about 800 to 1 of what we spend on public education versus

And then again, they tried the Dom Giordano theory a second time. The governor wanted $400 million for a SEPTA bailout. And the Senate Republicans' last budget said, we will give you the money for SEPTA in exchange for the voucher program that you vetoed. And they said no. So that tells you how strong the pressure is from the teachers union, that when Republicans say you can have 10

10 to 1 funding, they said no. When we gave them their holy grail of basically a blank check for SEPTA and mass transit, they said no. It tells you they don't want to trade. This is, if you will, as I say, it's one of their 10 commandments. They're opposed to this so deeply. There is no amount of goodies you can offer them. Look, there have been discussions even about the minimum wage, where Republicans said, we'll give you a raise in the minimum wage. There is nothing.

Let's stop with that. Put it in context nationwide, worldwide with this podcast guy. Minimum wage in Pennsylvania has not moved in forever. Not exactly sure why. So to bring that up, that's really breaking the seal. We'll do that in minimum wage, even though the manufacturer and others or constituents might be upset. And yet we still can't break through. So the ransom theory has to be coupled with an all out badgering going after this.

Republicans have to do more. You shows, Mike, mine, your platforms, etc.

to continue to say this. And I say this, they have to pressure Archbishop Perez.

He said the right things, but he's got to do more. I'm not calling for excommunication. Just kidding.

But he's got to do more. Maybe I am to say, no, you're a liar.

Yeah, look, they've begun to weigh in the Catholic bishops, a number of Jewish leaders who run the Jewish day schools.

This was a multi-faith, non-faith, it was independent Christian schools.

We finally had at the table about 40 different organizations of advocacy groups, independent schools, Christian schools, homeschoolers, Catholic, Quaker, Jewish.

We had a coalition, and it required all of us to push back.

I mean, think of it.

They wanted to take $100 million out of our scholarship program as it existed. And they wanted to tax the money raised. And they wanted to take away the tax break for donating. Remember, all of this money you and I are talking about in the tax credit, it's all charitable money. Exactly. There's no money unless Comcast writes a check. There's no money unless the Shiraki family writes a check. My wife and I are donors. We don't give Comcast money.

We don't even give cable box money, but we do our part and so do thousands of families that do it. And they wanted to cut back on that this year. And the Senate Republicans held firm and it's only because of that. But again, I want to just to remind your listeners, this bill, the tax credit is 25 years old. It happened when Tom Ridge was governor of Pennsylvania. It passed 131

to 64. It passed 131 to 64. Now Congressman Dwight Evans, now State Senator Tony

Williams, they were co-sponsors of the plan. This was an overwhelmingly bipartisan plan.

Right. The politics you're talking about is the reality of 2026, and it's only become partisan

because most of one party, not Senator Tony Williams, but most Democrats and every Democrat in the House, they walked away.

They walk they this issue only became partisan because the Democratic Party largely there are exceptions but largely walked away from it and made it partisan so partisan that they won't trade a billion dollars in new funding for public education in exchange for a trial program. Unbelievable guy nobody could put it better and again this is a nationwide issue why I centered on my guy in northeast Philadelphia this is really a laboratory of

how this thing works and can be replicated. Now, the part two headline, I like Ben Salem, Pennsylvania. The mayor is a character. We've been friends. The police chief is great. But I think a bit excessive here. I think they have problems that they have to do so much English as a second language stuff. They had a big deficit. They're cracking down on people who are legally in Philadelphia, which borders on Ben Salem, Pennsylvania, using their school system.

and maybe the dad lives there or there's a divorce and one lives there and the other. So much so they set up a tip line. I'm calling it a rat line, even though it's not a rat. It's an owl called Benny. Call Benny or email Benny. Tell Benny is what it says. This cute little owl. If you suspect someone doing it. Question is this guy. People in Northeast Philadelphia that may be doing this and this is getting the word out. They must have no idea of the scholarship.

we're talking about or other means to go to a private school if they feel the public school is so deficient. Nothing against Ben Salem, but I wouldn't say this is the creme of public schools in the area. They're okay. They're willing to risk severe consequences to get out of the section of the Philadelphia schools, which I would say as a section, by and large, are not as bad.

as many areas in Philadelphia, what do we make of this? Why are they doing that?

It's the pent-up demand, and it's, you know, as you and I have discussed, parents will do almost anything they can for the benefit of their children. And look, the opposite end of the city, right? Strawberry Mansion. Strawberry Mansion can hold 2,000 students. It has less than 200. Why? The kids have gone to places like Roman Catholic, West Catholic, and you know where a lot of them are? They're in Montgomery County.

They're in Bucks County. They're with relatives. They're with divorced parents. They're with fake uncles. Why? Because mom or dad or grandma, whoever's raising, you know, Michael, if you will, is trying to move heaven and earth to get them there. I think what you're seeing in Northeast Philly is why is this the case? Because there's not enough scholarship money. This year, not to get too into the weeds, but just broad-based numbers. This year, 100,000 children got the scholarships that you and I are promoting.

100,000. 80,000 were turned down. That's how much more demand there is. So there are a lot of families in Northeast Philly whose parents are nurses or firemen who got turned down. The charter schools in Northeast Philly have waiting lists in the thousands. The MAST charter school, which now has several campuses, has a waiting list that's larger than the enrollment. So you're a mom, you're a parent in Mayfair. You're a parent in Holmesburg.

You can't afford Ryan because they don't have enough aid to give you. You can't afford Father Judge. They don't have enough aid to give you. You can't get in the charter school because you're on the waiting list. Your number is number 950. You need 950 people to withdraw before your kid gets in. So what do you do? You go to Ben Salem and you go with Cousin Henry or you go with an aunt or you go with whoever and you take that risk because you're a parent and you will do anything so that your kid doesn't have to go to

and go to school in a trailer or go to school at a place where you're not thought about. To me, this tells you the means at which. Right. And as you said, look, Ben Salem. Look, Ben Salem's not Harvard. I get it. Right. But when you're on the Titanic, the guy coming by with a rowboat is a good option. And that's what Ben Salem is. Ben Salem's the rowboat to these parents. So I can hear this. I can hear that headline in a future column. You and I just broke it there. Titanic, rowboat. Ben Salem.

Go to it. You earned it on that one.

Well, look, I talk about it in the charters when our friends complain about our so-called friends complain about the charters.

Sometimes there's charters with the proficiency rates only 35 percent.

And I said, sure, but they came from a public school where the proficiency rate is 2 percent.

So I say it's the Titanic.

And like in the movie, some people got boats.

Some people got to float on a door.

The school with the 30 percent proficiency rates the door, but the door is better than freezing.

Parents with resources will move. Parents with resources will pay money. Parents without resources will do everything. They'll sign up for multiple schools. They'll enter lotteries. They'll try to get scholarship money. They'll move. They'll put their kid in a school that's marginally better. They're trying. The shame of it is here is so often we say parents don't care. Parents aren't involved. These are parents that care. These are parents that want to help. They're desperate that their child

be given a safe environment to learn. Look, and go back to this. You've had Ryan Boyer, the union leader on, perhaps the most important union leader in the Delaware Valley these days. He wrote, and he said on your show, he wrote in the Inquirer, and he said on your show, he and his wife lied about where they lived because the local school was a nightmare for their son. They lied so he could go to the Greenfield School in Center City. He's a guy with more connections than you and I combined, and he had to do that for himself.

his kid looked on. They're making these parents are making the case for school

choice better than I can in any column or any data. These parents are telling you how desperate they are for

school choice. They're willing to risk committing a felony because they want to help their kids.

The message of this then is, and it's our job too, but it's a Republican party, by and large, the other party,

even those, some of these politicians in Northeast Philadelphia, I think they're with school choice.

But they're not going to vote that way. So it doesn't matter what their heart is. It's their vote. What we have to do is make this a premier issue and tell these people, you're right, those moms and dads willing to risk a felony. If it's that severe for you, this is the issue you have to vote on. And it's pretty clear of the two sides on this issue. Sure. And it's pretty clear that there is a demand and a need. This isn't a philosophical debate. This isn't a this is a, you know, a Commonwealth Foundation or a

Heritage Foundation debate about the merits of school choices as some sort of esoteric idea.

These are moms and dads saying, our local school doesn't teach or it's unsafe or I don't want them there and I will do anything.

I'll sign up to multiple waiting lists. I'll try and get scholarship money.

And if not, we will lie and say you live with cousin Sylvia.

This is the case. And Republicans need to lean into it.

Look, and Democrats need to come back. Here's the thing.

That horrible bill that passed less than a month ago. They introduced it. One week later, they brought it on the floor and ran it. Why? Because they were afraid of the pushback. The pushback came, and so it died. But they're going to come back again. They're going to come back again and do this. So it's incumbent upon us to pressure Republicans to fight. It's also incumbent to go to these guys in Northeast Philly. Look, they outed themselves, Dom. They wrote a letter in the Northeast Times that basically said, please don't be mad at me.

Please don't be mad at me. So you know what? We should be mad at Pat Gallagher. We should be mad at Joe Hohenstein. We should be mad at the people that voted against their own constituents. People contributing. People contributing to society. The parents that are nurses and cops and pipe fitters. The people that want something better. They voted against them in favor of the union. If the Northeast Philly Democrats stood up to the leadership, this bill never goes to the floor. That's the difference.

And if the House Democrats won't do it, then you need a Republican majority so this bill never comes to the floor. One of those two things have to happen. Northeast Democrats need to grow a spine or the Republicans need to take over control and put Martina White in charge of what bills get to the floor. Absolutely. Thank you, Guy. And this can be replicated. This is all over the country. Pennsylvania just has to be in. It's ground zero of this Ben Salem thing with tip lines with Benny and you're committing a felony.

You exploit better than I possibly could. Where do we find you, Guy, in upcoming columns, if you know, that will be coming out? So my columns appear regularly at least once a week in Broad and Liberty. I can also be found occasionally in Real Clear. I have yet another column on Governor Shapiro. I'm one of those voices talking to all Pennsylvanians, but also the nation about who he is and his, what I say, Dom, with Governor Shapiro, his unwillingness to pick a lane. He doesn't know whether he's going to be a traditional

Democrat or a left-wing Democrat. So he continues to do both and cover his bases. And anybody that's not willing to tell you where they really stand, we should be leery of. So that'll be coming out real clear next week. You can always find me on social media in honor of the 250. Bicentennial, I dated myself. In honor of the 250, fill a freedom guy on X. Fill a freedom guy on X. And I'll have stuff from time to time on school choice, Pennsylvania politics. And this,

election. And look, much with school choice, the way the Democratic Party treats Josh Shapiro and the way he treats them is instructive for the party. As you said, you learn all about the nation by looking at Pennsylvania. Guy, couldn't have said it any better. Thank you, Guy, very much to be continued. Take care. Thank you. All right. There is Guy Shiraki here.

And again, we were talking about Northeast Philadelphia, Philadelphia, this, that,

and the other. The politics of this and what Northeast Philadelphia is like and the Ben Salem thing,

this is the challenge nationwide. So I choose to believe that maybe a lot of people don't understand what the two parties are about. You heard that desperation. Well, if you're desperate, you got to vote for the people that are coming with that rowboat. Democrats are sinking the Titanic and they're firing on the rowboats.

Heck, they're probably poisoning the water. They don't want you in there. That is as good of an analogy as it can get. And we'll pick it up again next week. Dom Giordano will send an email. Dom Show, D-O-M-S-H-O-W at AOL.com on Old School, New School, Next School. Old School, New School, Next School with Dom Giordano is a presentation of Giordano Productions, LLC. Copyright 2026. All rights reserved.