Guest: Ryan Walters, Superintendent of Public Instruction in Oklahoma.

Welcome to Old School, New School, Next School with Dom Giordano, a podcast devoted to preserving your parental rights, including the right to choose the best school for your child. This podcast is dedicated to gaining the option of school choice for every parent in America.

Here's your host, educator and noted talk media commentator, Dom Giordano.

Hey, welcome in, everyone. This is Dom Giordano. A very special week here with the School Choice Show because we have Ryan Walters, superintendent of schools in Oklahoma.

What is a guy who is a superintendent of schools doing with things like a religious charter school, which made a lot of news and I think ultimately is going to pass?

So Ryan Walters, why would you be a fan? I've had a union head in Philadelphia, 40,000 workers building trades on, who is my first interview on this new podcast, and he is an adamant school choice guy, which you can imagine, but you're in a similar position as somebody who essentially heads up the side that's routinely against this.

Yeah, you know, I mean, look, the way I view it is very simple is I believe in parents. I believe that God created kids for parents. He wants family units. He wants families directing their kids lives. And so when you look at school choice, we have got to continue to break down these barriers so that parents ultimately are the decision makers of where their kids attend school. And you look at a religious charter school to me, it's only natural of if parents want it, if it's available, if people want to do it, why would we not?

And listen, I'm very upfront about this. Our education rankings in Oklahoma have been terrible. I mean, that was why I was elected, was to help turn this around. I'm going, if we don't think outside the box and bring more options for families and allow more innovation in the system, it's just not going to get better. Well, to that point, let me try to take the other side. It's almost as hard for me as it may be as hard for me as it is for you to take the other side on this. And you'd be my prime guy if I ever get the debate going that I want to do with this podcast or nationally. With someone, I was going to say Randy Weingarten,

who I've interviewed several times. Are you aware New York Times reporting the split between Betsy Pringle, who is unhinged, and Weingarten, who is the real deal as far as union insidious and all, but very smart in the big case that you and I are sort of touching on out of Maryland when these Muslim parents primarily were told they couldn't opt out of books like The King Marries the Knight at the pre-K level. And they said, it's not the parent standard.

Weingarten said, I wish that we're settled at a local level.

I wish parents should have a right in this.

Bringle just went down the road of they're the experts and their client.

This came out this week in an Iowa school board member said the client of the school board and of the schools is the community, not the parent.

You know, I mean, it's fascinating to watch, isn't it?

I mean, because the teachers union is one of the most extreme groups in the country. They're just left wing wackos. But then you've got this even more Marxist extreme wing of the union itself. And so what you see is this dynamic of you got Randy Weingarten, who's trying to go, okay, guys, like, we can't go that far, right? Like, there is a line that if we go so far, like the public will never have any trust or faith in us. And if we're overriding parents at every level, even in these extreme examples, and act like they don't care, and they don't matter,

Like at some point we're going so far that we are just the extremists of the extreme. But then you got folks like Becky Pringle that just don't care. I mean, and I will say this. I think you got power, right? They want power. They want money. That is the main drivers of the teachers union. But you also have the third thing, which is ideology. I mean, they are some of the most extreme leftist views in the country or at the teachers union. And for any of your audience, I'm sure they've heard it from you a million times, but go look at the trainings they provide. Go look at their, just, just use their own words. Just go listen. Don't believe me. Go look at what they're doing.

They say, and you're going to see one of the most extreme organizations in the country.

A question for you, because I have theories on it, but you actually deal with it more day to day.

I was a member by law of the NJEA before I got into this, which is they spent $40 million in a governor's race for their president, who came in fifth among Democrats in a primary.

$40 million for a primary, that's pretty good to come in fifth.

Why don't teachers erupt? Or are we seeing this and I'm missing it? Because if they did that, I think parents would be more amenable and maybe not as ferociously looking at charter schools and school choice. Well, I will say this, you know, I'll give our opponents credit on their strategic moves here. They do a great job. The teachers union does locally at rebranding. You know, they don't when they get teachers in. I mean, one of the best things we've done is right out of the gates.

I started basically a public awareness campaign. I took all the clips of the NEA, what they did at their national conference, and I put it out on all of our channels. I emailed every teacher in the state and said, I want you to know 40% of your union dues go here. And we had a mass exodus of teachers who go, I didn't know that. I mean, you know, that wasn't what they told me. You know, they told me they were going to help me with liability insurance, professional development. They didn't tell me that. You know, so in a red state like Oklahoma, the teachers union goes, oh, we're not, you know, we're not doing all that. You know, this is what we're about. And all of a sudden you start showing them the money.

and going, guys, you are funneling Joe Biden, Kamala Harris campaigns, etc., that you're funneling these type of trainings, this type of nonsense. I mean, they don't lead with that. So again, there's some areas of the country where the teachers union does this rebranding where their folks don't know. They don't even know what they're advocating for at the Capitol. That's the other thing I do every session. I go, do you know that they're fighting transparency in our schools? Do you know that they're fighting parent rights? I mean, here in our state, they fought merit pay for teachers. We gave $50,000 signing bonuses for

teachers and they opposed it. They didn't want exceptional teachers to make more. They just want everybody to make, they want a socialist system. So I keep telling all the teachers, I email every teacher in the state, go, I just want to remind you, I'm trying to give you more money when you do a great job. They're saying no. And so I think a lot of this is a public awareness campaign of saying this is who they are, this is what they advocate for, it's behind the shadows. It's definitely something that they've done a good job of hiding from the public.

Back to the school choice issue and charters. Okay. And back to the religious charter. Wanted to get an update because this is a big case. First of all, you hear the argument all the time in the court. How do you view it in the Supreme Court? Did they get past the separation of church and state, which is negligible? But did that come up? Did we get past it? And is it mainly this has to be rewritten because Amy Coney Barrett had to recuse her? I don't think she had to, but she's above.

and she did. Yeah, ultimately, yeah, to cut to the main point like you just did, Amy Coney Barrett, if she doesn't recuse herself, we win. I mean, that's the easy deal here, and that's what's frustrating about it is, look, the Democrats on the court, they're in the tank, where they're going to go. So you understand that. Unfortunately, and we don't know, they wouldn't release who've all voted where. I have my suspicions of which one flipped, but if Amy Coney Barrett's there, I think it's an easy,

C-5-4, you know, there, maybe even 6-3 if she's, you know, involved in it. But so basically what we're seeing is the left has done a masterful job at weaponizing, I mean, this phrase separation of church and states, you know, it's not the Declaration of Independence, it's not the Constitution, it comes in a court ruling much later in our history. But what they've done is they've taken the establishment clause and run roughshod over the free exercise clause, when the reality is, is those both work together, right? And so when you understand the establishment clause, it's nothing

like what they say it is today doesn't mean you can't ever say God in a school it doesn't mean you can't ever say or that's not what it says okay and again if you go back to our history and you start from the beginning and you look at what they were trying to do there and what the free exercise clause means you measure them both and and that was basically our case which we thought was incredibly strong which again for the justices thought work was incredibly strong and so what happens is it goes back since it was a 4-4 tie it goes back to the lower court ruling which was that it can't proceed but again I'm with you we're working here to get another

I don't.

You know, because here's here, let me walk you kind of through. So again, I do think when you have charter schools, when you have these type of opportunities for kids, again, we have a process here. You have certain criteria you have to meet. One of them is you got to show community support. You've got to show that there are parents that actually want this school, number one. Number two, ours says you got to show a track record for success. Like what is the models you're using or what are examples you're using that would show that this school would be beneficial? When the Catholics come forward and go, yeah, we've been doing this for a hundred years, you know, hey, here you go. Well, 2000, but who's counting? Yeah, right.

So they're going, I mean, they literally have a school in Oklahoma that literally was almost 100 years ago out in western Oklahoma. So, I mean, they walk in and go, okay, we'll tell you our model. We'll tell you why it works. We'll tell you how we can expand it. We'll tell you how to be. And we're going, this is a no brainer, folks. So, you know, for us, look, you know, I don't believe Satanism is religion. I think that's absolutely nonsense. But you have these other examples. And I go, listen, we have a criteria. The Catholics clearly met it. You know, they have that support. They have the support from parents. We have about hundreds of parents sign up for the school.

And so to me, I think every state needs to look at kind of the way that we do things, which is making sure that it's a model where you don't have these actors that are just trying to cause chaos in a system. Go, no, no, no. Here's the criteria. That's what we're looking for here.

Let's talk about the big, beautiful bill. Dave McCormick, the Senator McCormick, Ryan Walters with us here in this week's School of Choice show comes on frequently. He told me he wished it were $10 billion. I don't know why $10 billion.

is still not enough to me. There's 5 billion in there. Nobody has attacked this. Murkowski and these others seem to be somewhere somebody. And the Democrats just are letting that go. I guess there's so many bigger things. What would you say? Is there a dollar figure? If you had your way, if I had my way, and you do this day to day, I have something in my mind that would liberate thousands of people in Oklahoma, parents, and across the country. What's the number that's needed, maybe?

at the federal level.

Look, you know, when you're talking about tax credit, you know, what we did here in Oklahoma is we put an escalator on there to go, look, every time we hit a cap, it's going to go up because, you know, we want to make sure that people aren't turned away from it, you know, and that's, you know, and that's part of, you know, my concern when you cap these type of programs is okay, so when do you tell somebody no, I mean, one of the first reasons I was such a believer in school choice was I talked to parents that were rejected and didn't have opportunities and I'm going, I'm not going to be the guy that says, sorry, you know,

Sorry, you know that your kid doesn't get that opportunity. Like I'm going to be the guy that goes, I'm going to fight every way I can to give you an opportunity. So I hate capping these things. I hate limiting them. I'm with you, you know, that I do have concerns about how low that number is. But you know, I think we've got to continue to stick some kind of escalator on there or come back in the future and continue to push that. I do agree with you. I mean, hopefully we're not given the game away here. But you know, it's really fun to the radar. And I do think there's so many other things and I'll give the Republicans a lot of credit and President Trump and his team.

stuck it in here in a way that I think is very palatable. I think it makes a lot of sense. It's a promise he made to Americans. I think that the Republicans in Congress understand that. And so, look, I'm still very optimistic about it. And again, I like the strategy here of sticking it into this bill where we can get this relief for all families. Yeah, we're coming up on July 4th. It's liberating. What's coming up with Ryan Walters? You and I have talked on a multitude of things. The New York Times seems to have a Ryan Walters desk, which is always

is good. If you like to be on their radar, what's next for you in Oklahoma? You and I have talked some of the biggest things, religion or the Bible, at least, as a work that is historic, etc. We've talked about some of the times you've been under fire for statements, and we've talked about a revolution in Oklahoma. What's the next big thing?

So the next big thing for us, we've got a couple of announcements in the next two weeks on this is, you know, I'm a true believer in school choice. I've been a true believer and we've got to get this woke left-wing nonsense out of our schools. We also have to replace it with good, solid curriculum that passes on the values of our country to the next generation. And we should be unapologetic about that. We've got an announcement coming in the next two weeks. Every kid is going to have access to not only the founding documents, but they're going to get some of the

the highest quality materials to narrate them through the story of America going all the way from kindergarten to when they graduate. And you know what? I absolutely want kids to be able to get a great job. That's very important to me. I absolutely want kids to be able to support their family and realize their God-given talents. That's very important to me. But you know what? I feel like we don't talk about enough. I want kids that are patriotic Americans that are going to continue to make this the greatest country in the history of the world so that my kids and my grandkids get past this on. If the history tells us anything, remember I'm a former

It tells you that if you are not protecting the values of a civilization and allowing the next generation to understand those values and understand the history of your people, you're not going to be successful. You will end as a civilization.

Well, let me ask what's being done in Oklahoma schools now. Oklahoma strikes me as a patriotic place. Is it just that it's not a point of emphasis or are you seeing the wokeism creep in?

Oh, the woke-ism is creeped in. Oh, absolutely. I mean, look, you look at our textbooks, and it's amazing. It is absolutely amazing the downplaying of American exceptionalism, if not just the outright, hey, look, you know, America's had all these problems, and America's just awful. You go, no, no, no. America is founded on these core principles, and this is where you have to teach history. America was founded on these core principles that made it the greatest country in the history of the world. Now, look, that doesn't mean throughout our history you don't go, well, that was a time we didn't measure up to those. That absolutely should be part of it as well.

But you take it from the premise of what made us different, what made us unique, what's made us stand the test of time. You start there and you teach through the prism of those principles. That gives kids the understanding and that gives them the guidance of the future of, hey, look, I got to develop my own view of American exceptionalism, what makes America great, and are we making decisions in the future that will continue this great country? That's one thing. Is there another announcement, something else that's upcoming in addition to that? That's all we've got right now. We've got some fun things later.

We've got some things we're working on, but yeah, we've got several in July that'll be big. I'd love to give you a scoop on some of those. And I'm telling you, we're going to keep rocking and rolling here in Oklahoma. We will get you back. Now, where do people find you? Where do they find you on Twitter, social media, et cetera? Where do they go for Ryan Walters? Well, thank you for that. RyanWaltersForOklahoma.com is the website that we try to keep everything centrally located. And then RyanWalters underscore on Twitter. We're very active on Twitter. We were in it with some blue state

the governors just a couple weeks ago. So, you know, we always have fun mixing it up on Twitter. But yeah, I appreciate anybody following the work. Look, we're going to keep going. We're going to keep being the spear point of education reform in the country. And again, we're running the teachers unions out and look, we're seeing major successes from it. So we're very excited. Absolutely. Thrilled to meet you in person. Thank you very much for joining us today. Yes, sir. Thank you for having me on. Hey, that's Ryan Walters. We're bringing you each week here on the School of Choice Show, people that are in the center ring when it comes to school choice.

And on my radio show in Philadelphia, Don G. Ordano's show on Talk Radio 1210 WPHT, I had on recently Dave McCormick, the senator from Pennsylvania. Dave is the guy that was one of the major co-sponsors of the big school choice part in the big, beautiful bill. And he told me that this is something he fought long and hard for, $5 billion.

you can get a tax break by contributing.

There are a couple rubs to this.

Let me go back to what happened during the middle of the night with the big, beautiful bill.

Widely reported that Maisie Hirano, the senator from Hawaii who thought we ought to have a train that goes to Hawaii, if you remembered, or maybe she thought we already had one.

She, in the middle of the night, tried to take away this school choice money.

under the usual guidelines that we see, sadly, from many Democrats. They resisted. They were able to stop her. You know, why in the middle of all this on some of the biggest issues out there, Medicaid, et cetera, tax on tips, why would they strike at this? Because this whole show, parental rights, strikes at the heart of what is wrong with the system and why school choice is the liberating issue across the board, the civil rights issue.

That's the premise I give you each week. By the way, if you ever want to reach me, question, comment, might have a guess, might have an idea, want me to know your story, just go to domshow, D-O-M-S-H-O-W, domshow at AOL.com. So after this got through and passed, I had McCormick on, and I asked him several questions about the big, beautiful bill and school choice. He did tell me that, yes,

The Big Beautiful Bill and School Choice means that each state must still opt in. Not exactly sure of the mechanism here, meaning that each state government, wherever your state are, wherever you're getting this. Like, I'm in Pennsylvania, Swing State, Josh Shapiro, big deal. He was optimistic that Pennsylvania will opt into this. I am not that optimistic. But since I'm not optimistic, doesn't mean we're not going to push this.

We have to get on this to contact wherever you are, your local representatives, and say, hey, I want our state to be one of the states that is going to go with the school choice part of the big, beautiful bill. This is state by state. Now, will some states resist? Oh, I could just see in places like New Jersey, et cetera. And this bill would liberate tens of thousands of students each

every year over, I believe, a 10-year period with the money that's there to make private school choices or something of that nature. It's a voucher system, a beautiful voucher system that does not add to the deficit or anything like that. But I can't emphasize enough, coming off that interview with Ryan Walters, who's the superintendent of schools in Oklahoma, and my interview with Senator Dave McCormick, we need to pressure now.

at the state level. The job is not done. And the New York Times seems to be banking on that. They wrote this piece, Congress passes a national school voucher program. They say Congress has approved the first national school voucher program, they even say, which will help all but the wealthiest families pay for private school and other educational expenses. Families who earn up to 300 percent of their area's medium income, equivalent to

More than $300,000 in some parts of the country will be eligible, including those who already send their children to private schools. That's a shot at saying this is for the rich. It is not. The federal plan, though, has to be ratified at the state level. That's the concern. That's where we are now. The federal plan is intended to spur donations to nonprofits that provide education scholarships. New York Times now, under the program,

Eligible American taxpayers can make donations to designated nonprofits and take that money off their federal tax bills. A dollar for dollar credit up to $17,000 per individual. Says the research director at the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy. New York Times is a left-leaning research group. You get your whole contribution back. Yes, and you should. They go on to say some of the hurdles of people and an assistant secretary.

to the education department during Mr. Trump's first term said you have to convince now a lot of people to give 1,700 apiece. He celebrated the bill as transformative option for families, but said the number of students served will be limited by the number of donations that nonprofits are able to drum up. Well, that's where we come in. That's where this show comes in. That's where we encourage you to do that. And we encourage you to apply for it. Notice what they're doing here, New York Times. They are still banging the

to try to stop this. All right. One other item to tell you that ought to shock you again, wherever you are listening to this podcast. It's from a friend of mine, local pundit in Pennsylvania, Guy Shiraki, writing at Broad and Liberty. He's uncovered that the Westmont Hilltop School District in Cambria County, think Johnstown here in Pennsylvania, is paying $2,000 per family when students in their community

leave a cyber charter school and returned to the Westmont Hilltop School District. In other words, they are bribing parents. This is at least unethical. They hate to charge cyber charter schools. The governor does too. They try to cut funding all the time. What they're trying to do is starve it to death in the budget, the cyber charter schools, and what they're trying to do is starve it of students. Now, we're not sure, this is recent, how many people

have taken the $2,000 to go back to the very school district that they fled to go cyber charter.

In upcoming shows here on the School Choice Show, I will give you that information.

Maybe as bad or worse, though, the Ferndale School District, Shiraki, reports, which is a neighboring district in Canberra County, they are bounty hunters.

They are giving teachers $1,000 per student for every student the teachers can get out of the cyber charter schools and get back into the Ferndale School District. All of this, wherever you are, if you're in Pennsylvania, with taxpayer dollars, federal, state, etc., these school districts, that's where their money comes from.

Can you imagine these failing school districts where parents are making a decision, parental choice again, to go to a cyber charter hookup? And there are good ones, great ones in Pennsylvania. They are now trying to either bribe parents or put a bounty on those students in dead or alive. Now, are parents of means going to be the ones that are targeted? Are they going to make a choice on their school?

for their child, say, in a Radnor, Lower Marion, wealthy districts. No.

We're talking about the Norristowns, the Reddings, the Philadelphia Public Schools, the Coatesvilles.

That's where this is happening.

You may want to check and tell me.

You can always email me at domshow at AOL.com, domshow at AOL.com, if this is happening in your area.

It's a rearguard movement to strike down another option. Parents like the cyber charter setup. Pennsylvania is doing very well with this. They're trying to undercut it in two ways. Take away the funding, even though the cyber charter schools only get 68 cents on the dollar, 32 cents on the dollar, stays with the school district. So the school district is having fewer kids and yet still keeping that money. Oh, no, that's not good enough, though.

They are coming after the parents. Allegedly, Guy Sharaki says they're calling him up and saying, hey, was that a mistake? Are you really going to a cyber charter school? What? Should schools be doing that? No. Should they be paying $2,000 to lure the parents back to the school with taxpayer money? No. This isn't like Ford will give you a discount.

If you come back from Chevy, come back to us, we'll give you an employee discount. No, this is taxpayer money. I think this may be going on in other places in the country. It should stop. It's unethical. I don't know if it's illegal. Somebody ought to look at that. But keep this in mind. They're not going to go down without a fight. That's what this show is about. Parental rights, the school choice show. We're here to highlight this stuff, to push back, to give you hope. And the hope is that

Americans to get that tax break will be funding this through the nonprofits and more and more students. It may not be the entire tuition. It may be just what the parent needs. So that last piece to push them to send their kid to a cyber charter or to a private school, a Catholic school, whatever. There's a myriad of choice out there. We want to flood the zone. That's what this show is about. Flooding the zone.

He used a football term with choice flood the zone and

the other side then has to make a decision about how far are they going to go.

So let's get Pennsylvania to pass this. It ought to be a no brainer. Let's get your state to pass it.

It's from the big beautiful bill the national school voucher program coming your way.

Hey, that's it. Thanks for listening this week. Thanks for listening each and every week.

Tell people about this podcast, this show, the School Choice Show, wherever you get your podcasts. And send me an email. Go to domshow at aol.com. Thanks for listening. Old School, New School, Next School with Dom Giordano is a presentation of Giordano Productions, LLC. Copyright 2025. All rights reserved.